Citing ‘toxic’ debate, Phil Scott calls on Senate to delay vote on Zoie Saunders for education secretary

Updated at 6:10 p.m.

Ahead of a daunting confirmation vote scheduled for Tuesday, Gov. Phil Scott on Monday called on the Vermont Senate to postpone its consideration of Zoie Saunders for education secretary.

“I’m concerned about the prospects for a civil and fair Floor debate and vote at this time,” Scott wrote Senate leadership in a letter obtained by VTDigger. “I would respectfully request you consider postponing the vote as we work together to deescalate the conversation and ensure accurate information is presented.”

Scott’s letter comes as a growing number of senators have signaled opposition to Saunders’ confirmation.

As of Monday afternoon, 11 of the chamber’s 29 members told VTDigger they were planning to vote ‘no’ or were leaning in that direction. Only five told VTDigger they planned to vote ‘yes’ or were leaning that way. The remainder said they were undecided or would not share their intentions.

Saunders’ confirmation requires the support of a majority of the Senate, which currently has 29 members. Last week, the chamber’s education committee voted 3-2 to recommend her confirmation . As is customary, Saunders has already begun serving as education secretary as she awaits confirmation.

The Senate did not appear immediately inclined to grant Scott’s request for a delay. Ashley Moore, chief of staff to Senate President Pro Tempore Phil Baruth, D/P-Chittenden Central, said Monday afternoon that the Senate would not postpone Tuesday’s scheduled confirmation vote.

In his letter, Scott lambasted what he called “misinformation, false assumptions, and politicization” of Saunders’ record. He said the debate had become “toxic and unproductive.” Among those he called out for treating Saunders poorly were “certain members of the Legislature, political organizations, lobbyists, the education establishment, and some advocates.”

The governor specifically cited a campaign email Lt. Gov. David Zuckerman sent supporters on Saturday calling on them to ask their senators to oppose Saunders’ nomination. In the email, Zuckerman questioned Saunders’ record and sought to tie her to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and that state’s efforts to pull certain books from school libraries.

Saunders responded to Zuckerman on Sunday in an email obtained by VTDigger. She wrote that she was “very surprised and disappointed by (Zuckerman’s) false claims about my professional experiences and values.” Saunders responded to each of the claims the lieutenant governor made and concluded by saying she trusted he would “discontinue spreading falsehoods.”

In Scott’s letter to lawmakers on Monday, he referred to “the erroneous comments by the Lt. Governor” and said Zuckerman’s email blast demonstrated that the debate over Saunders’ confirmation had been “poisoned by misinformation about her background and record.”

Her reputation, Scott wrote, had been “unfairly tarnished,” which he said could impede her future career opportunities.

In an interview Monday afternoon, Zuckerman said he was “looking into” whether the information he shared in his campaign email was correct. He said he’d gleaned it from Saunders’ resume .

Zuckerman said he would “certainly take ownership of anything if I distorted information.”

‘A fair chance’

In Vermont, cabinet positions and board appointments typically receive little more than a rubber stamp from the Senate. Though lawmakers have occasionally spurned lower-level appointees, nobody VTDigger has spoken with could recall the body blocking confirmation of an agency secretary.

But as Tuesday’s scheduled vote approached, it appeared Saunders could face such a fate. Amid rising pressures — such as the skyrocketing cost of education, questions about private schools receiving public money and the growing mental health needs of Vermont’s students — the politicization of education has grown from a smolder to a blaze. Saunders has walked right into the firestorm.

Critics have pointed to her resume, honing in on her more than six years of work at Charter Schools USA, a Florida-based, for-profit education management corporation. Before coming to Vermont, Saunders served as chief strategy and innovation officer of Broward County Public Schools in Florida, her only position working for a public school district, and one that lasted three months. She has never worked as a teacher, principal or superintendent.

“I wanted to give her a fair chance,” Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale, D/P-Chittenden Southeast, said. But ultimately, Ram Hinsdale concluded that she would oppose Saunders’ confirmation.

“From everything I’ve heard that transpired in public interviews, it hasn’t left Vermonters feeling less concerned about changes to their really beloved public school system,” she said.

In recent days, VTDigger canvassed all 29 sitting state senators. (One seat in the 30-member body remains vacant following the resignation this month of former Sen. Dick Mazza, D-Grand Isle.) Thirteen senators said they remained undecided or would not reveal their plans — but others were beginning to dig in.

In addition to Ram Hinsdale, the senators who indicated they would oppose Saunders’ confirmation or were leaning that way included:

• Sen. Thomas Chittenden, D-Chittenden Southeast
• Sen. Martine Gulick, D-Chittenden Central
• Sen. Nader Hashim, D-Windham
• Sen. Mark MacDonald, D-Orange
• Sen. Dick McCormack, D-Windsor
• Sen. Andrew Perchlik, D/P-Washington
• Sen. Anne Watson, D/P-Washington
• Sen. Becca White, D-Windsor
• Sen. Irene Wrenner, D-Chittenden North
• Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky, P/D-Chittenden Central

Those who said they would support Saunders or were leaning toward a “yes” vote included:

• Sen. Brian Campion, D-Bennington
• Sen. Russ Ingalls, R-Essex
• Sen. Dick Sears, D-Bennington
• Sen. David Weeks, R-Rutland
• Sen. Terry Williams, R-Rutland

Vermont’s Agency of Education went without a secretary for almost a year after Dan French stepped down last year. Heather Bouchey served as interim secretary until Saunders took over on April 15.

To become secretary of education in Vermont, candidates must first apply to the State Board of Education, which then submits at least three names to the governor for consideration.

Since Scott announced Saunders’ appointment last month , opposition to the Florida education executive grew gradually, first from the Vermont Progressive and Democratic parties, and later the state teachers union, the Vermont-National Education Association. And while many senators initially declined to judge Saunders before her confirmation hearing, more spoke freely as the vote approached.

Some senators who would not share their intentions did speak to their thinking on the governor’s pick.

“I won’t tell you how I plan to vote, but I am thinking about it,” Sen. Ginny Lyons, D-Chittenden Southeast, said in an interview. “I did read the transcript (of Saunders’ confirmation hearing) all the way through. And I, you know, I still have concerns about the breadth and depth of her understanding of what our Vermont education system needs.”

Sen. Alison Clarkson, D-Windsor, also declined to share her vote but noted she’d received hundreds of emails from constituents opposing Saunders and not a single one supporting her.

“These were all individually crafted, heartfelt,” she said. “I was astonished and impressed, impressed by how strongly people felt.”

Clarkson, the Senate majority leader, said the Democratic caucus was not taking an official position on Saunders’ confirmation and hadn’t conducted an internal vote count.

‘The most difficult political process I’ve been through since civil unions’

The Senate has dealt with contentious appointments in the past. In 2018, the chamber rejected a pick for the labor relations board . And according to Senate Secretary John Bloomer, it voted down multiple environmental board nominees appointed by former Gov. Howard Dean.

But no senator VTDigger spoke to could recall an agency-level confirmation process so embroiled in politics.

“This has been the most difficult political process I’ve been through since civil unions,” Sen. Ann Cummings, D-Washington, told VTDigger, also declining to share her intentions. “And I don’t feel as comfortable with my vote as I did in civil unions.”

Sen. Jane Kitchel, D-Caledonia, a veteran lawmaker and chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, suggested that not all of her peers had allowed the process to take shape as designed.

“Unlike some of my colleagues who are right out of the gate saying, ‘No way,’ I’ll let the process work its way out,” she said, calling herself undecided on the matter.

Sears, another longtime leader and the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said Monday that he was leaning toward supporting Saunders, calling the moment a “no-win situation.”

“She’s already been damaged quite a bit by this. If she were to win, it would be tough. If she loses, we’re not just back to square one. We’re at, who does Phil Scott appoint who could get confirmation?” Sears said.

The Bennington lawmaker also indicated that the politicized debate over Saunders’ appointment had influenced his decision. Specifically, Sears pointed to the campaign email Zuckerman sent over the weekend, saying he was “disappointed” by elements of it.

“I think he got the wrong information and ran with it,” Sears said.

‘I have never met Governor DeSantis’

In his message to supporters on Saturday, Zuckerman sought to link Saunders with DeSantis, the conservative Florida governor and recent presidential candidate. The lieutenant governor wrote that Saunders had, among other things, “received an award from” DeSantis while she was working for Charter Schools USA.

Zuckerman also questioned the notion that charter schools are public schools, calling it “troubling” that “Saunders considers private schools that are funded with public dollars to be ‘public’ schools.”

After connecting Saunders to DeSantis, Zuckerman went on to describe Florida’s efforts to ban certain books and limit the teaching of parts of American history — insinuating, though not explicitly stating, that there might be some connection between the nominee and that movement.

The next day, Saunders shot back, calling Zuckerman’s claim “false” in an email chain copying members of Scott’s staff, Baruth and chairs of the House and Senate education committees.

“I have never met Governor DeSantis nor received an award from him,” she wrote.

According to her resume, Saunders received a “Business Recognition Award” from the commissioner of the Florida Department of Education in 2021, after she worked for Charter Schools USA and during DeSantis’ tenure as governor.

Saunders also pushed back on the notion that she was “complicit in book banning,” adding that the city of Fort Lauderdale, for which she worked, redistributed books it was “required to purge” through Little Free Libraries.

Saunders described her hometown of Fort Lauderdale as “a progressive city, situated within the last (D)emocratic county in the state of Florida,” and noted that Vermont’s “education ethos” was part of what attracted her to the state.

As for Zuckerman’s suggestion that charter schools aren’t really public, Saunders said that in every state she’d worked, charter schools are “defined in state statute as public schools.”

Charter schools are publicly funded but lack public governance. In Florida, they are considered public schools and are required to test students using the same statewide exams as public institutions. But according to the Florida Department of Public Education, “Charter schools are generally exempt from the Florida K-20 Education Code,” with a number of exceptions.

“I believe in the importance of public discourse and, while we may not always agree, you can count on me to be fair, respectful, and honest in our ongoing work together,” Saunders concluded in her response to the lieutenant governor.

In an interview on Monday, Zuckerman said he’d met with Saunders after she was appointed, calling her a “ very reasonable and smart person . ” But he said he’d sent her follow-up questions that she’d left unanswered.

“My questions to her were more about what does she see as a vision. And I didn’t really get much of a response to that,” he said.

As for delaying the vote, Zuckerman said the administration had already extended the process when it requested that the Senate Education Committee wait an extra week before holding Saunders’ confirmation hearing .

“I don’t think there’s any need to alter the schedule,” he said. “They already got the delay they need.”

‘Right back where you started’

In her response to Zuckerman, Saunders acknowledged that she was “entering this role at a very challenging time for Vermont’s public education system.”

The rising cost of education — and with it, property taxes — has defined this legislative session and the political present. Statewide, the average homeowner is expected to see their education property taxes rise about 15%, contributing to a wave of school budget defeats across Vermont.

Saunders’ confirmation vote is set for the same day the Senate Finance Committee is expected to take up this year’s most controversial education funding proposal , called the “yield bill,” the piece of legislation with the most impact over property taxes.

The education secretary addressed the controversy her appointment has attracted in an interview on Friday.

“My whole life I’ve worked in communities, and I’ve worked in communities during times of conflict, and I’m coming into that situation here in Vermont,” she said. “What will make me successful in this role is continuing to show up, continuing to have conversations with all of our key stakeholders.”

Even if senators vote Tuesday to oppose Saunders’ confirmation, she may not be out of work. Scott can reappoint Saunders or wait to do so after the Legislature adjourns.

MacDonald, the Orange County Democrat, told VTDigger he was leaning against voting to confirm Saunders, but he wasn’t certain what result opposing her might have.

“The most interesting thing about this discussion is that it doesn’t matter if there’s a majority vote not to confirm a gubernatorial appointment,” he said. “The governor can simply do as governors in the past have done and appoint them the next day. And you’re right back where you started.”

Read the story on VTDigger here: Citing ‘toxic’ debate, Phil Scott calls on Senate to delay vote on Zoie Saunders for education secretary .