Going to be *** great program and how it's going to work is we're going to allow the panel to talk for about 30 minutes or so and then we'll open it up to questions for Tiger Bay members only. I want to introduce our moderator today. I'm so glad Nancy agreed to do this. Nancy has worked as an award winning reporter, journalist for 21 years in broadcast journalism and she spent *** year working for the community with United Way. They all remember that Nancy Als is now *** member of the West to news team as an anchor and *** reporter. She began her career in journalism covering the space program in New County and has been the center of every major story in the Central Florida region. It's my pleasure to introduce our moderator, Nancy. Thank you Jane and thank you for cutting that short because it was way too long. Thank you to Tiger Bay for giving me and West Two this opportunity to be here with you guys today. The timing of it is very interesting. We do have an initiative that we're rolling out this very week at West Two and it's related directly to youth violence in Central Florida. I'm going to tell you guys about it *** little bit later and uh would love to talk to you about it one on one. If anyone has any questions, we are actively looking for members in our community to participate in this initiative with us, help support it because it's so important. And of course, because of the conversation here today, we know it's timely. I do want to take *** very quick moment just to speak the name Dylan Lyons in this room with all of you, Dylan was *** reporter at Central Florida News 13 and I worked with him when he was an intern many years ago. And I just want to say, I know for *** fact that Dylan would have absolutely loved the opportunity to moderate an event like this, for his community, but he'll never get the chance because he was murdered in Pine Hills allegedly by *** 19 year old who was walking down the street with *** gun. So I just want to take *** moment to honor him today to start by speaking his name and also honor the other people that died that day, including nine year old Tiana, as we mentioned when this program began and all the other victims of gun violence and in their honor, just say that I look forward to *** productive and solutions based conversation today for our community. So thank you very much to State Attorney Monique Warrell and Orange County Sheriff John Mina, for making the time to be here together because we know how busy you are and thank you to Christian Minor who will be central to this conversation. So Christian is the executive director of the Florida Juvenile Justice Association. This is *** group that encompasses about 75% of juvenile justice systems in Florida that includes everything from preventions to placement in facilities, to trauma informed care, everything in between. And we're going to start with Christian to establish for us what our system looks like right now in the state of Florida. So *** brief overview from you Christian. Thank you. And it's *** pleasure to be here today amongst these two wonderful public servants discussing this important conversation regarding public safety community. Our D JJ system in Florida is the largest and most comprehensive in the nation. It's actually *** bifurcated system where it's structured D JJ oversees about uh 75% of the providers that constituted system. Uh As Nancy said, providing community based services like prevention redirection all the way to deep end residential commitment. Um With that, uh they operate under the auspices of the department serving our at risk youth here in the community. Christian trends, let's start with you and the trends you're seeing compared to five or 10 years ago. When it comes to youth violence, we know an increase in prevention and diversion programs means arrests are down we know that, but you've expressed concern about an increase in the violent behavior among the kids you're coming across. And that includes Keith Moses, who is the suspect charged in this case of Pine. Absolutely. And when we have this discussion, we talk about kind of DJ and the juvenile justice system, the great thing is on the panel is the representation. People often overlook. Our system is constituted by law enforcement, state attorneys, public defenders, the court systems and our providers providing new services. Felony arrests are down. Gosh, I think we're at *** 46 year score low for juvenile arrests here in the state of Florida, felony arrests are down 22% with misdemeanor arrests down 32%. What we have seen though is as we've shifted our resources towards prevention and redirection and keeping the kids that don't need to go into the deep end part of the system from it. The kids that we are seeing come into the system have much higher levels of acuity, higher offenses, more aggravated offenses. *** lot like Mr Moses had and it's been difficult to work with *** lot of these kids and protect public safety with that in mind. Say that let me go, I'm so loud so we can do this while she gets the microphone. I don't want to waste *** second of this. So I'm also Cuban so I am like ready for this one. Uh Just so everybody knows how I sort of prepared for this Christian. And I spoke on the phone last week and I asked him Christian and I spoke on the phone extensively last week and I asked him to talk to me *** little bit about what weighs on juvenile justice advocates in our state. What keeps you up at night? What are the things that you worry most about? And so before we get to those three things and I hope we do because it's so important. I do want to stay on Keith Moses for just *** moment. And the young man in the middle of this horrific case, uh Sheriff Mena, State Attorney Roy, it's been well documented in recent weeks that you and your offices are not on the same page with how this young man was handled in our system. So your thoughts on this particular case briefly and what you hope it teaches all of us going forward and this where I will start with you. Well, thank you, Nancy and thank you to all of you. It's *** pleasure to be here, um, this afternoon. So essentially, I think that this case is an example of how the system in its preventative form is not successful in that. Although Mr Moses came through the juvenile justice system, the offenses for which he came through the juvenile justice system, um, for the most part were car burglaries and that's not something that we would have seen someone, um, receive *** significant amount of time for. And then the final thing, um, that he came through for that was *** felony, felony level offenses. Um, was that robbery and in the robbery that he participated in, he was not the person who was in possession of the firearm. The reason that those facts are important is that when we look at the kids who come through our system, what I'm seeing, um, are offenses that are, are *** lot more egregious than offenses that, that Mr Moses came through the system for. Um, and while I've said repeatedly, I can't discuss how those situations were resolved, I will tell you that there were resolutions that held him accountable for the actions that he uh was involved in. And then his one adult offense was *** possession of marijuana and it was *** misdeed in possession of marijuana. And um I've gone through in detail why we were not able to prosecute that that has to do with the change in law and the measuring of T H C which is the drug, the, the substance inside it that determines whether or not the substance was in fact illegal. And with the change in law, we no longer test quantities of that amount. However, even if we had tested, even if he had been convicted, the likelihood of him getting the maximum sentence for that offense, which would have been *** year in jail and likelihood of him getting that maximum offense is just very slim because based on the way marijuana charges are treated throughout the entire state, not just in this circuit, it's just not likely he would have gotten the maximum penalty for that offense. Sherina, your thoughts on the Keith Moses case and what it should teach us. Well, thank you for having us. And before I talk about that, I think it's important to note that crime is actually down in Orange County for the last four or five years. Even including our most serious offenses. Apart on crimes are actually down crime in Pine Hills since 2013 is down nearly 50% because of all the resources we put in there. And when I look at the Moses case, I just see an example of what's happening uh throughout the system, *** system of zero consequences. What I mean by that is he him and others view on hold. They know nothing is gonna happen to them. They literally realize that they and the juveniles know, I mean, they hang out with the 18-25 year olds, some of the most violent people uh in our community, *** very, very, very small group, but they see them being arrested and *** revolving door then not receiving the consequences for their actions. And I give you an example of *** juvenile we arrested for, for homicide, *** 17 year old who was given he had the had the service 21 days and he was put on an ankle monitor, he cut off his ankle monitor, kept sed, we caught him, the judge gave him another 30 or 40 days in J DC and then put him on the ankle monitor again and he absconded again. And so that's some of the frustrations that we feel in law enforcement is. Some of our most violent kids need to be arrested dozens and dozens of times before there's any significant action taken from the courses we're going to dig deeper into that with Christian because as you remember, I just said, how I prepared for this was to ask him, he's in it every day, right? As, as his our panel, obviously, but Christian, I asked him, what keeps advocates like you up at night, what are the things that concern you the most about our system and the places where it's cracked? And one of his answers to me, one of the first ones he mentioned was the cooperation and communication between law enforcement agencies and the State Attorney's offices across our state. Christian, why is that so critical that these offices work so well together? Uh Thank you, Nancy. And I I think it's critical because of the comprehensive approach that we have to take to every single case when we're looking at these juvenile arrests or kids that are committing crimes cases brought forward. Both of these individuals have incredibly difficult jobs. Sheriff Mina and his deputies protecting public safety on the front lines, each and every single day and see attorney war out on upholding the law and making sure that there's *** case where she can go ahead and prosecute with all the concrete evidence that she needs to do. So. And if there's not between the two, you're not going to be one bringing officers or people in the community forward, they can go ahead and uphold those cases on those arrests, right and vice versa. Consequently, you know, the same thing she's going to be unable to prosecute does ultimately that breakdown in communication is what impacts public safety. You have cases that are no cost, they are now unable to proceed. And that's where you have *** lot of these kids too. When their hands are tied in that manner, they'll go ahead and they'll commit additional offenses here in the community. And that's what you ultimately see some of those smaller, less aggravated offenses but still dangerous offenses. They add up until ultimately something serious happens like the lives of Mr Moses took. So she Mina, we'll start with you based on the necessity of this cooperation and relationship for public safety. How would you define the health of your relationship with the State Attorney's office today? Yes. So, you know, let's be clear, we may have different philosophies on how to keep our community safe. But the men and women who work for our offices and our staff, our senior staff work together every single day to bring the cases forward for successful prosecution on every single homicide arrest. Our detectives meet with representatives from the State Attorney's Office. So there, there is *** cooperation and no one should ever think that our community is less safe because we are on the same page on *** couple different cases. So you don't believe any of the differences that we've seen play out publicly can compromise the system and public safety in general in our community because you do have different philosophies. Absolutely not. The system is bigger than the sheriff and the state attorney. Like I said, you know, and Chris has said, you know, the men and women, the orange guy sheriff's office, the Orlando police and others are out there risking their lives every single night. They're making some great cases of great arrest and I'll be the first law enforcement is not perfect, but we're pretty good and we put, we put together *** lot of great cases, our frustration cases that do meet that threshold and then are downgrade to *** lesser charge. And that's the frustration that we feel. But again, I'll be very, very clear that just because we have different philosophies on keeping this community safe and on the justice system and I repeat offenders, that doesn't mean that we're going to stop doing our jobs. We, I come to work every day and talk with my deputies and my staff about, you know, getting out there preventing crime. And we, you know, right now, we have, we have 100% solve rate on the homicides that were committed in Orange County this year, we do phenomenal work and that work is going to continue and that work does have to happen in partnership with the State Attorney's Office. And does this is your response to the relationship as it relates to public safety in our community and where it stands right now? So I agree with the sheriff, our offices do collaborate. Um the chief of my violent crimes and the chief of my narcotics and the chief of my homicide unit work uh directly with the individuals and in the sheriff's office whose corresponding responsibilities are in those areas and they uh work tirelessly to um ensure that the cases that we receive have the evidence that we need. Now, there are times that what law enforcement thinks we need is different than what we actually need. And, and, um, you know, we defer to law enforcement to do their job and would request that they defer to us to do ours because we're trained attorneys and we understand what the law requires with regards to, to the threshold of evidence. And um, as I've said, many times, we don't operate and they throw it against the wall and see what's there. So whatever evidence the law requires, that's the evidence that we are gonna need to pursue *** case. And if we don't have it, then we just don't have it. And sometimes that's where you'll see that cases will be downgraded because didn't have the evidence to go with the highest charge. One of the things that I committed to when I became State Attorney was to not pile on all the possible charges that could be fathomed from *** particular incident, but to find the most appropriate charge that fits the back and to charge that. And that's something that I'm very proud to say that we have done with regards to your question though. Do I think the fact that we publicly disagree so loudly about so many things? Does that impact public safety? I think it does. I think it does because while our offices are working together, they know, and I've heard, you know, the from, um, you know, my staff to their mom and dad are fighting, but that doesn't, you know, have anything to do with us. But I think it makes their job difficult because they don't know. Um, you know, do they need to take *** side on this? What is the right thing to think? What is the right thing to feel? And as I mentioned, um, you know, last week, what ends up happening is they, their work ends up being criticized, right? Because I'm not prosecuting these cases personally, the sheriff is not, you know, going out and building these cases personally, we are the executives of our organizations. So when we criticize each other's work, what we're saying is you, you did something wrong, you assistant state attorney, you did something wrong. And I think that number one, it increases the um, issues that we're having in retention of employees because eventually they throw their hands up and they say, well, I just don't want to do this job anymore because I can't do anything right. And ultimately, that does impact public safety. So I think that um us being on the same page, at least publicly is, is gonna go *** long way towards promoting public safety. Would you like to respond to that? That the mom and dad are fighting? Uh Was that you or me, Jane, what are you doing to me with this microphone? Would you like to respond to that? Because it's *** very heavy comment to say that this does affect public safety in our community because it trickles down to the employees and this mom and dad are fighting narrative. So I would respectfully disagree. And you know, I think holding each other accountable us, holding the State Attorney's office for prosecution case cases, the State Attorney's office holding us accountable for the quality of our cases. That's *** good thing, right? I think for so many years, these past five or seven years, the focus has been all on law enforcement and the arrest of law enforcement and the use of force by law enforcement for cases that have nothing to do with Orange County in Central Florida. *** lot of focus needs to be put on the post arrest system, the criminal justice system, not just our State Attorney's office, our judges and the sentencing guidelines. I think all of that needs to happen and I think accountability is *** good thing. I think their disagreement is *** good thing. That's the way we're going to get better. We're just gonna say, well, everything is great and we get along and we agree on everything. Um, things will not get better and I, I believe that we are gonna work together, we can work together. Uh, like I said, the, the deputies who are working the patrol the streets right now, they're not thinking about this relationship right now. They're out there doing their job risking their, one of the things that Christian brought up to me and another concern that advocates have across our state, it revolves around the issue of civil citations. And I'm really glad that we have time for this because it's important for anyone who might be watching at home and just isn't familiar if *** child is eligible. These citations are essentially *** tool for law enforcement that serve as an alternative to arrest. *** child is assessed and receives services to address their risk factors. Advocates believe this path saves money, one, but more importantly, leads to better youth outcomes by keeping kids from going deeper into the system. So Christian, you and I talked extensively about these and you shared some, some results from counties across our state with me for the last year, for 2022. Do you want to give us *** little picture of that? Do you have those numbers? Yeah, I mean, again, you know, when we talk about the issues of civil citation and kind of pivoting back to the public safety issue, when we talk about each respect, civil citations with the front line with the sheriff and his deputies. His number one goal is to protect public safety, those in the community and their families and that's his approach to it. State Attorney Worrell, it's hers as to prosecute *** case. Each of those impacts people's lives differently. I think it's important to note she can change the trajectory of someone's life and the way that the case is prosecuted or the way that they are adjudicated and vice versa. That so with civil citations, that is *** tool that the law enforcement officer has at their discretion to utilize in lieu of an arrest that when we talk about redirection as part of the system and that prevention type aspect of say *** kid or even in the case of an adult, civil citation is arrested for *** low level crime. It doesn't amount to them being introduced to the system. This is *** form of pre arrest aversion. It keeps them from entering the justice system. There may be sanctions that are attached to the completion of *** program for that pre arrest civil citation, underlying substance abuse treatment, you know, classes that address aggression, criminality, so on and so forth. Once they complete that, if it's *** juvenile, the record is automatically expunge, you know, and sometimes that that charge is withheld for the adult populations. Consequently, that keeps kids that don't need to go into that deep end part of the system or become just as involved from going in there. Often times we see kids that have been arrested for low level crimes introduced into the system, they get surrounded by more hardened youth gangs, other people that are there and then they go down that trajectory, they're brought down there. It's that streamline that brings them on into that. So I think what we've seen statewide is that the usage of civil citation is different by all law enforcement statewide. And it was just something that, that oftentimes can be just *** glaring difference. And I think there's *** conversation to be had amongst law enforcement, what they're seeing in their respective communities with regard to the fences that may not be utilized for civil citation or be utilized for civil citation. So looking at other counties that, that Christian actually pointed out to me in Pole County, for example, last year, 85% of eligible youth received that alternative to an arrest in Pinellas County is 96%, right? According to your association's numbers. Dash the utilization, right? In Duval County, 96% of eligible youth received this citation. This alternative here in Orange County though last year, it was just 48% much lower. So, Sheriff Mina, your take on these citations, these alternatives to arrest and why is there such *** difference here in Orange County? So, uh, one of the, the important things to remember is that, um, juvenile arrests in Orange County by the sheriff's office have decreased by 50% since 2016. So what we're seeing, although all kids may not be getting *** juvenile civil citation, uh, there are other things that we can do in lieu of arrest, right, for their parents. They don't necessarily need *** juvenile civil cation. So, um, the fact that we have such *** huge decrease, arrest just goes to show you that we got away from arresting, especially kids for low level offenses *** long, long time ago. And those, those numbers prove that. Yes, can we always, can we approve in our, our issuance of juvenile citations? Yeah, probably. But the bigger number is the reduction of arrest for low level offenses in Orange County. Your, your thoughts on the civil citations and the fact that they're much lower here in Orange County. So I can't speak to, to that particular thing why they're lower here in, in Orange County. But I can tell you that yes, overall juvenile arrests have decreased tremendously, um, for low level offenses, which brings us, I think to why we're all here, the arrest that we're seeing are from much more serious offenses and that's really what we have to address. So there was an issue of we're arresting kids for things that they should be arrested for. We're introducing them into the system and that's ultimately harmful to them and to the community. Um, so, yes, I, I agree that, that, that has reduced tremendously. But now, you know, we're seeing that the things that Children are being arrested for are really serious. And I think that's escalated rather quickly where the system has kind of done an about face where before we were saying, well, let's arrest less because we shouldn't be doing that when, you know, these are pretty trivial offenses, but now that they're committing really serious crime and I don't think the system was prepared for that. Let's talk about the other thing that Christian brought up to me is, remember my, what keeps you up at night scenario, right for him. And that is the drag the detention risk assessment instrument for anyone again watching at home. This is *** screening that determines the most appropriate placement for youth upon arrest. And it's important to note that this was created with the input of various stakeholders, including prosecutors and the Sheriff's Association. So, Sheriff Mina, in your opinion, the screenings, are they working as they should? Is that broken? I, I think we need to take another look at it. Um Obviously, we have some, some females out there who are committing some very, very serious offenses. Uh They, they are released at *** rate that is way too much for this community. And like I talked about that 17 year old, why, why is that person have an ankle monitor on there, there is that killed someone in this community. So I think the not only the dry everything needs to be looked at as far as our juvenile justice system and certainly direct filing on certain is definitely appropriate for treating them like an adult because of the seriousness of their crime. But yeah, certainly that needs to be looked at and adjusted to what's happening today in this world. I think it's really important that we avoid pendulum swings because *** few years ago, Florida was noted as being one of the states that direct filed, um, more than many states in the country. So we kind of swung back from that and uh the legislature removed mandatory direct file where there used to be certain offenses that were mandatory for *** prosecutor to direct file on. And so that that was removed and now we've reduced direct filing and I think that that reducing direct filing is, is *** good thing. Um, but I agree that we need to look at the juvenile justice system because in reducing that direct file, we also have *** juvenile justice system that is not equipped to deal with some of the violent offenses that we are seeing. At the same time, the adult system was also not built for us to prosecute Children. So we have sort of *** conundrum where we have *** juvenile justice system that's not equipped to deal with, you know, violent crime committed by Children. But when we send them over to the adult system, they're also facing sanctions there that I don't think anyone ever envisioned that *** child would face. So I think it, I agree with the sheriff that we need to look at the entire system and how we can address what the reality is that we're facing. Now. Mom and dad just agreed on something Christian. Yeah. And, and to kind of further off of that, um, we oftentimes when we're talking about the system about 10 years ago, there is close to 8000 residential beds in the state of Florida. Um, today there's about 1600 and there again, as we talk about direct file, um, I don't know the silver bullet on that. I, I believe that there are kids that have committed serious egregious aggravated offenses that should be dealt with in the adult system. There are advocates that seek to do away with direct file completely. Um, the issue with doing away with that would be you have to redirect these kids back into *** system that only has 1600 beds. Uh, that's been fiscally constrained over the years that had about $15 million.02 years ago, cut out of its residential budget in both secure non secure max program. So how do we accommodate this influx of kids if we were to do *** way of direct file, that is kind of the conundrum that you're seeing both the sheriff and the state attorney agree on up here is, is how do we deal with this? Ok. And I think that is important to keep in mind as we have this discussion. I want to make sure we have enough time to open the floor to our members to answer questions. But I do. Yes, we're going to do one more question. This is *** big one, but maybe we can answer it briefly quickly when we look at solutions, right? Having *** solution based conversation. Is there *** piece of legislation right now that you're watching that you're watching that you're hopeful for worried about rooting for. Can you think of something happening right now in Tallahassee? That could have an actual impact on everything we're talking about today. There are *** couple of pieces of legislation that the Florida Sheriff's Office Association, uh is, is watching carefully and that's giving minimum mandatories for certain other crimes involving firearms, uh to include, uh, we have *** huge problem in this community with people breaking into vehicles and stealing firearms. And there is legislation that will probably pass that will include *** minimum mandatory for that because it involves *** burglary and firearm. So it's something that I'm hopeful for and something that's going to have some teeth and maybe some consequences for some of the offenders in our communities who are stealing guns and then using them is *** very serious crime you're watching. Uh, so I made *** proposal to overhaul the juvenile justice system *** bit and, and that proposal would, uh, lengthen the time that we have jurisdiction over kids. Um, right now, the way it stands once *** child enters *** plea or goes to trial and is convicted in the juvenile justice system, jurisdiction over that child is relinquished to department of juvenile justice. And what we have is states that are often way too short to address the level level of violence that we're seeing, um, committed by Children. So what I proposed is that we allow that jurisdiction to remain with the court and then the court in my office can have more uh influence over what is the minimum length of time that *** child would stay in the system? So I'll give you an example of where that becomes practical. Let's say that you have *** case of *** very young child who commits *** homicide. 10, 11, 12, 13, we could direct file that child. Well, actually we couldn't direct file that child. We have to indict that child. That's the only way that we could get them into the adult system. But then that child could face life for that event. And at 10, 11, 12 or 13, we will have said that we have given up on any opportunity for this child to be rehabilitated. I don't believe that as *** society that that's what we want to do. However, I also don't believe that as *** society, we believe that that child should be placed in *** system for 18 months because that is goal and sufficient to address any level of rehabilitation that *** child would need to not offend in this way again. So this legislation will say that when you have *** child that young, that we can keep them in the juvenile justice system, that the, that the state will be able to propose. And of course, the defense will be able to argue. But ultimately, the court will decide what is the minimum amount of time that that child should remain under the supervision of the Department of Juvenile Justice. And we can also extend the age from what's currently 19 to 21 to the maximum age that that child would be able to remain under the supervision of the Department of Juvenile Justice. Now, I know that uh Representative Bracy Davis has uh put that bill through the house and I'm hoping to see it come out of the house and also see *** companion in the Senate because I believe that that will address *** lot of the problems that we're seeing, right. Now in our juvenile justice system. All right, we're gonna pass it on the date and open up the floor for questions from members. Thank you, Nancy. First of all, thank you so much. Can we have *** round of applause for Nancy? Thank you very much. So, this is *** part of the fun part for Tiger Bay members, right? We ask tough questions that we um that we're gonna open it up for questioning. So raise your hand. Um I'm gonna give, are you gonna handle the MS then? All right, great. Thank you, Erin. That's ok. Um So just raise your hand if you have *** question, Erin will come over. All right, we'll start with that. Thank you. And one of the other can ask the question under the law. Currently, I know for domestic violence cases if you are your device and you tampered with or take it off, it becomes *** felony. So you could be charged with *** misdemeanor and remove the device and it becomes *** felony. Is that not similar to the case that you or should it be the case where it becomes *** felony to remove blood on your device? Yeah, there's an additional charge for that. Uh But, but my point is that whether it's the system or us here, that that person that, that juvenile should not be let back out on ***, on *** ankle monitor after he's already cut it off and he's alleged to have committed murder in our community. It's definitely the, is chapter 39 sufficient enough in these days and times with the elevating crime that's been committed by juveniles. Is it sufficient? The Juvenile Justice Act should, uh, should be beefed up, should be more, be more diversionary programs or something to that effect, to try to get these people at least diverted into *** program before they get into the adult system. No, I don't, I don't think that chapter 39 is sufficient for modern day. Um, it occurrences that is taking place by Children, um, in our community, I think that it spoke to *** time where things were much different and the violence unfortunately has escalated among Children. So I don't think that chapter 39 is sufficient as it currently stands to say that good afternoon. My name is Jared Allen. Uh, just as an interesting note for the members of the Tiger Day. It's actually five years to this day, uh that we had *** gun debate, uh panel, uh, five years ago with Linda Stewart and Team Maley who were here and the conversation is continuing today and I suspect five years from now still will. So Sheriff, my question is for you. Uh And of course, if anyone else would like to chime in, I certainly appreciate it, but we all know that permit was carry is in the middle of passing in the Florida legislature. How do you feel that that's going to affect your agency and other law enforcement agencies in Florida when it becomes more difficult to, if you see someone who may have bulged in their pocket to stop and search them or seeing some firearm that may be concealed in their car no longer being able to search that vehicle to see what other contraband they may have. So how is that going to affect your agency that does become law? Do you feel in the interest of justice and fairness that those who have previously been convicted or currently in the process of facing charges for carrying *** concealed firearm? Should those charges be from their record now that it is now legal for them to have *** firearm concealed? So I answer the last part first. No, anyone who right now is facing charges for caring so far should go all the way through the system and face the law as it was written. Um And I will, I will be very strong in that, in that stance. I think many of the uh the gang members, many of the violent drug dealers in our community. Uh That is one way that we help keep our community safe. Um So I per carry, if, when it's going to be signed by the governor, there's no doubt everyone knows that that is going to make my job extremely difficult, that is going to make the jobs of our deputies very, very hard and to be on the street and wondering if someone has *** gun or not and not even be able to check the seat if they have *** firearm permit or even ask them because everyone is going to be able to carry *** gun. And even worse than that is lowering the age to buy *** rifle from, to buy *** gun, *** rifle from 21 to 18 years old. What's going to happen right now? So all these 18 year old gang bangers who do not have any felony convictions, they're going to be lined up at gun store at 18 years old and purchase an M4 rifle. And so that is *** huge problem in our, our community. I've spoken strongly against it uh for you going way back since I was Chief of police and I, I really think our state is going backwards and we should not be decreasing gun laws in our state. I could not agree more. We are going to see gun violence in ways that we have not even imagined these laws are not protecting us. They are not making us more safe. The loosening of gun restrictions that have just continued over these last several years. And now with this lowering the age of purchasing firearms and um removing the requirement for *** permit is going to put guns in the hands of individuals for the first time, uh without any checks and balances. And unfortunately, we are going to see more gun violence. And it is, it is greatly concerning. Good afternoon. And thank you to each of our panelists. Uh, for me, this is, uh, it's good to hear about this very important conversation, but at the same time, it's maddening. It's maddening because we're talking about the escalation of juvenile, juvenile violence and, uh, and, and what to do on the back end of it when, if you believe as I do, there's very few individuals that are born with *** uh with ***, with *** DNA that, that predisposes them towards something like that. So, what is the, what is the one thing that uh that, that you would say? And, and I don't think answers really are gonna come from either Talla or Washington. What is the one thing that uh for each of you that you would say in our community we could do uh that would uh that would help address this on the front end versus the back end. Thank you. Uh Working with families treat the family as *** whole. Um One of the biggest issues we have is fatherlessness. Uh I had the opportunity to meet with speaker Paul Renner. He look last year speaker Sprow House Bill 70 65 which is one of his number one initiatives and increased communication between DC F E D and D O C to allow communications and programming to address these issues. As the speaker said, I went into *** detention center and I asked how many of the kids they were sitting there and raised their hand. They had *** father in one arm out 40 kids. I think that says *** lot. Uh when you look at these kids and the lack of guidance that they have in the households that they're coming from and when they're committed to *** residential program, the community that they're going back to, uh, we had *** kid in *** residential facility who sat there and said, made all these strides, had college opportunities and said, well, I have to go serve probation on the back end. And the community to sent me here set up to fail. And I think allocating more resources to serve not only these kids but treat the entire family provide areas of responsibility where we can lift these kids up and have responsible parenting and set *** path and *** roadway for them to go down. That's going to lead to success. It's going to lead to lack of crime. It's an investment in these individuals, an investment in the families that's ultimately going to protect public safety here in the community. I would say, removing Children from dangerous environments. And that is one of the initiatives behind the proposal that I made because when you have *** child who commits *** violent offense and then you take them out and then send them back there. 18 months, 36 months later, nothing has changed in that environment. So what has changed to let the child act any differently when you have kids when I, you know, became state attorney. And I had an opportunity to see *** presentation from the Orange County Sheriff's office gang unit. I saw pictures of kids as young as eight years old standing holding guns with gang members. I have *** nine year old son, the thought of him being exposed to that type of environment. It, it resonated with me. So if we can remove kids who have been identified as big and dangerous environment and remove them long enough, so that to your point, we can deprogram whatever has been instilled in them for however many years because I mean, sure you can probably speak more to this. How early it begins. The kid that I saw was eight. I imagine that there are kids that, that are indoctrinated even younger than that. So if we can remove them from those environments and reprogram them, I believe that they can become productive citizens. But our system is not geared towards that. Currently, it is only geared towards punishing them after they have already done something to harm our community. So we have hundreds of programs in Orange County mentoring programs, this Google, they're, they're out there. We do our *** number of different activities with kids, team academies and I mean, let's face it. That, that's *** great idea. Um But that's, that's not happening right now. We're not gonna go just take some kid because he was in *** situation and remove him from that awful situation. Um The juveniles and young men who are committing crime in this community is *** very, very small percentage and to have an impact right now, to reduce crime, to reduce youth violence, they honestly, they need to face consequences consequences. So their friends see that. Wait *** minute, if I commit crime, I'm not coming back for *** little while. I might go away. I think that the lack of consequences, even, even for some serious crimes have led many of our young men and women to become emboldened and, and see that if there's nothing that's going to happen to me, nothing's gonna happen to the, to the drug dealer or the gang member on the corner. And that's cool. He's got all his money. He's got, he's got *** gun, he's got *** nice car, the police keep arresting him and look, he's right back out. So, why not? Why not? Why not? Why can I do that? And um, I, I just don't, I just think we just still hold people accountable again. It's *** very, very small percentage. It's what, 1.2 million people in Orange County, there's 220,000, uh, kids in Orange County public schools. It's only 800 gang members in, in our community. Right. It's *** very small percentage of the people who are actually involved in the violent and criminal activity in our community, we just need to hold those people accountable. I, I gotta push back *** little bit on that because we send people to prison and that is our mechanism of holding them accountable. But there are very few crimes that are gonna send them there forever. So eventually they're gonna come home. And if we haven't addressed what made them go to begin with, then that's why we continue to see the repeat cycle of violence that we see in individuals when the Amazon driver robbery happened *** few uh months ago. Now that individual had just come home from prison, he had gone for six years. So people are being held accountable and they're going to prison. But unless they do something that's going to send them to prison forever, then we're still going to see them come home and sending them is not stopping the other individuals around them from committing the crimes that they're committing. So I think we've gotten this false sense of security, that accountability means that it will stop happening. And that's just not true because if it were, then we wouldn't see the number of individuals that we currently have incarcerated and the level of crime that we currently see being committed. So that's, that's the biggest philosophy difference right there between me and the state attorney. Um you know, not giving minimum mandatory sentences. So we, we have two individual charges, gun charges, uh where you're downgraded or job those two individuals are dead. Now, sometimes it's for their own good that they're taking out of this crime of life and sent to prison. And there are success stories of people who are sent to prison and rehabilitated and come back. So I, I still, I still think that, you know, for certain people in our community, the consequences will help keep our community safe and it could help them be safe as well and save their own minds. Hello, I'm Mark. In many unique situations. I represent all three of the families who had uh, family members murdered by the Pine Hills murder. I won't mention his name. Um I have the greatest respect for sheriff me and we've known each other for about 25 years and I think he's the best of the best as to State Attorney Warrell, I've gotten to know her through this administration. You're amazing. And I feel like I'm an adopted child and my parents are fighting. I wanna go do some family counseling with you all it's needed. Now, actually, you said about working together *** meeting with the families and your prosecutor will Jay at 3:30 in my office and your investigator, your homicide investigators have been incredible. And so with that said, there is the ability to get along to work things out all these social topics. And I've been *** defense lawyer for over 40 years and we also do personal injury. So we have uniquely we're on both sides of all of this and representing these families, their hearts are broken. You mentioned permit scar, which is just insanity. But with that said, I think we forget that it's also coupled with stand your ground laws. So now you're going to have people walking around with stand your ground. And somebody says, well, I thought they were *** gun at me and now *** 19 year old and an 18 year old pull out *** gun and shooting person arguing. So it's dangerous. This young man who killed these three people was 19 years old with *** new law, he'll be able to carry *** gun. So there was nothing wrong with him picking up *** gun and then going out and what he did. And just for those who don't know, I got in *** car with *** cousin and this woman named Natasha and for no reason, seemingly shot and killed her. *** few hours later, he went to the home of Tiana, had come home from school, opened the back door, saw the child and shot and killed her. Then he went and killed *** minute or two later. So I'll get there, I'll get there. Thank you. And then, um, when killed. Um, so with that said, can you all get together on some sort of enforcement of gun laws? What are you going to do? What can you agree on because you're going, if you don't get rid of the guns, you're going to have issues no matter what all these programs are doing this for 40 years means nothing unless you address the issue of gun violence in Central Florida. What can you do to get along with each other to enforce it and to keep us safe because these laws are not going to keep us safe. Absolutely. You made *** great point. The stay on your ground law. So we have many violent drug dealers and gang members in our own community who have escaped murder charge by claiming stay on your ground. And I think you've already seen as we are on the same page when it comes to our opposition to loosening gun laws. I think we just, and you know, the State Attorney's office has invited us to come do training with her office. And one of the, one of the major topics that we want to discuss and hope that we can get better together at is the enforcement and the prosecution of people carrying guns specifically. Now possession of *** firearm by *** convicted felon and holding those accountable. But certainly we're going to work together. Yes. Yes. Yes, we are. I agree with you. Have one more question. Thank you. Our panelists for joining us today. Um This is an important topic that we all want solutions for. I just want to thank Sheriff for spending his time with us and also investing in prevention. He is invested for numerous years. In Pay Center for the Girls, which is *** prevention program here in Orange Academy, we talked about prevention programs. But if we do want to be *** solution to the program, can you name *** few other programs that our community members can get invested in and also become the solution to the problem? Yes. Gosh. Uh There, there are hundreds of programs uh right here locally that you can donate to uh front line outreach, uh, boys and girls clubs. Um, you know, the list just goes on. I, I, you know, I'm *** big supporter of Harbor House, uh and helping those uh uh people who are face abuse for domestic violence. I think that is ***, that's *** whole other topic. And I know *** lot of people in this room have worked very, very hard on that because we continue to see domestic violence crimes in our community. We continue to see repeat offenders of domestic violence, escape prosecution. Um So I think that, um if, if, if you just look, uh we have the resources on our own web page about the different uh organizations that are important in this community. And there, there's, there's so many of them here in Orange County and I do agree that, you know, uh Pay Center, uh, is, is an incredible organization that helps out *** lot of young women in our community. And there's so many more, so many more, I can't even name *** home anyone else? Ok, we're good. Um I'm gonna let Nancy have one final word. Uh We are going to be giving the Fang and claw to Jared Edelman. So if you could hang around after the meeting, we're gonna take *** picture. Excellent questions. Thank you. Thank you, Jane. I just wanted to very quickly announce I had mentioned this initiative that West two is starting this week. And so thank you Pace Center for Girls because they're actually *** part of our special that we're running on Thursday to launch this initiative in our community. It is *** journalism reporting based initiative, but it has another path. It has another arm and that is community service. So as we move forward with reporting on these issues that we talked about today, we're going to send out almost an alert to our community and we're going to be looking for partners, whether it's an individual or *** group of students or *** corporation or you and your co workers who can come up and help us meet the need that we come across in our reporting. It's called saving our streets. And we're gonna be putting out that S os see what we did there. S os saving our streets, ok? And that is going to be launching this week through channel two. So please look out for it and I'd love to answer any questions you have about it because we're looking for partners across our community to help us in this effort. Thank you. Good Nancy. Thank you everyone for sticking around for this very important discussion and we are sure you got, man.