How times change with the scoring.
vaz
Posts: 2,709 Forum Member
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I remember years ago getting a 10 was a big deal and us viewers would be agreeing that it was deserved.
Remember Kelly Brooke and Brendan's American smooth getting penalised for doing 4 lifts instead of the 3 and an over excited Bruno giving them a 10 anyway as he couldn't help it and the horror of Len, Arlene and Craig at him for giving the 10 😂
Nowadays we've got Shirley bless her and to a lesser extent Motsi standing up after most dances and awarding 10s like sweets and last night giving hamza 10 when it was an 8 at the most and I'm being kind here. I do love him though but last night wasn't his best 🥴
Back then it really did feel like strictly and the judges were stricter, now it's just everything has to be so positive that if it wasn't for Craig the show would feel like a parody of what it once was.
Remember Kelly Brooke and Brendan's American smooth getting penalised for doing 4 lifts instead of the 3 and an over excited Bruno giving them a 10 anyway as he couldn't help it and the horror of Len, Arlene and Craig at him for giving the 10 😂
Nowadays we've got Shirley bless her and to a lesser extent Motsi standing up after most dances and awarding 10s like sweets and last night giving hamza 10 when it was an 8 at the most and I'm being kind here. I do love him though but last night wasn't his best 🥴
Back then it really did feel like strictly and the judges were stricter, now it's just everything has to be so positive that if it wasn't for Craig the show would feel like a parody of what it once was.
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Neither do I. They are judges and are supposed to be impartial. I they like a performance they can say so in their comments and critique, and score accordingly.
I don't mind a standing ovation but only for something that is 10/10. Makes it more into a moment.
Motsi & Shirley stand up for anything they give above a 5.
The producers push for more and more now, especially post 2019, and the increase in 10s I think is part of that.
It’s like the show is trying to manufacture more “big moments” rather than letting them naturally occur, and they’ve taken it too far now, the audience is noticing it more and more and if they continue on this path, Strictly will end up like X Factor.
Anton?
🫣
If I was a celebrity contestant and danced for example like Hamza did last night in the AT I would know myself that there was no way it was worth a 10.
I'm equally sick of all the sob stories and crying on VT's, like Helen last night, they are a complete turn off to me and it puts me off anyone who does it. I don't mind spontaneous tears now and again like when Ellie and Johannes did their speeches to each other tonight but any recorded sections don't need to be broadcast, the celebrities must choose for them to be shown. They could re-take them when they feel more composed. It smacks of attention seeking.
I can't help but agree.
😂
I should not be able to find anything deficient or that I don't like about the routine. I am not convinced that any of the judges bar Craig adopt the same mentality.
A score of 10 should be the exceptional exception reserved for the perfect performances. If that means no tens being awarded throughout a whole series so be it.
There have been series in the past where I have not deemed any dance worthy of a 10.
I am further of the view that all but 4 dances in this entire series have been overscored and the majority heavily so.
I'm afraid to say Motsi, Shirley and Anton are chiefly to blame for that.
The standing ovations are an intense irritation but it's the inconsistency that rankles most. Different couples being marked against different standards which imo is wholly irresponsible and unacceptable. It creates a whiff of both bias and unfairness that diminishes the integrity of the competition which in turn leads to viewers voting tactically to turn judges leaderboards upside down in protest at the perceived overscoring or underscoring of various couples.
It isn't just the judges behaviour that is the issue, it's the consequence of their actions.
All that being said however in the case of this series Hamza will win anyway so the end outcome is unlikely to be affected.
To me, a score of 10 doesn't mean that the dance has to be perfect, but rather that it, in the judge's opinion, was danced to the very highest level that is realistically possible on the show, given the lack of formal training in that style on behalf of the celebrity as well as them having less than a week to learn it in the form of a full routine.
Alternatively, it could also mean a 9 but with just that little extra spark that pushes it over into a 10, if that makes sense.
Am I, as a viewer, supposed to believe that actual professional dancing judges thought Hamza's Argentine Tango was a more accomplished routine than, say, Kym's... which they only awarded 9s to?
I adore Motsi and Shirley but Hamza's score was manufactured last night... and that's a real shame because he's more than capable of getting those scores on his own.
Seem to remember Kara and Artem's AT when Kara got her heal slightly caught in her dress towards the end of the dance and Craig gave it a pitiless 9 !!
Indeed my one criticism about him, is that unlike Len, who would make down dances with too much "faffing about" or not enough steps, Anton still thinks like a pro, knowing how he would try and reduce the contect and "faff about" when with lesser celebs!
I'm joking. But Something Has To Be Done, and I'm guessing an overhaul under a new executive producer is the only likely answer, which feels a long way off.
Equally- I'd like Rylan & Janette(/the ITT producers) to alter their mindset. Stop asking "What have they got to do to get a 10?" and start asking "What have they got to do to improve?" But it's chicken & egg- they only keep asking that narrow question because 10s are so much easier to get now.
Your middle paragraph is pretty much exactly what I was going to write.
It was made clear on Saturday that Molly's being held to a higher standard (presumably because of her stage school training), so it's harder for her to get a 10 than, say, Hamza.
The trouble is that even applying this test (or indeed the one in your final paragraph), there are still too many 10s being handed out. Also, it is incredibly complicated. You can get an extra mark for improvement, so you're marked against yourself, but also the standard that you personally could achieve with your level of prior training in the time available. Then it looks crazy that some celebrities get 10s like sweeties, but Molly (formerly joint highest scorer with Hamza prior to this weekend) has had exactly one.
I remember Len deducting a full 4 points for a beautiful routine because in his opinion, it wasn't proper foxtrot even though it was actually an American Smooth.
There was a big hooha over 40% or 60% in hold which I haven't heard mentioned again since Len left.
Yep- Kym's got the same number of 10s as Molly despite doing one less dance, and Tyler's got 5x as many despite the same. (And there's a separate debate to be had about how someone can get five 10s and only finish 8th). Molly does seem to be getting marked separately in a way that previous stage-schoolers weren't.
10s so far:
Hamza- 13
Fleur- 9
Tyler 5
Helen 4
Will 4
Kym 1
Molly 1
None of the judges are really judging anymore, we just have 'judging theatre' which is yet another coat of grease on the slippery slope that leads to the reality show cesspit. I'm in favour of the judges giving comments after the dances but no marks. At the end of the night, each judge would independently rank the pairs from highest to lowest, no ties permitted on their list. Then all the individual judge's rankings are revealed and tallied by couple to determine each couple's leaderboard position. I think it would be more exciting than the current way of doing things. No one would know until right before the public vote opens who ended up where on the judges' leaderboard.
Of course, I don't expect Strictly to make any kind of radical changes to a programme that has been rolling along for 20 years with huge popularity. So I'm just going to appreciate the good dances that happen on any given night and enjoy the general light entertainment Strictly provides in the run up to Christmas. When that ceases to be enough to draw me in, I'll stop watching.
Never mind previous stage school people, this approach wasn't even applied to professional dancers who've taken part in previous years.
Maybe it's a new thing. I don't think Maisie and HRVY (both stage school alumni) were held to such a high standard. HRVY got a 10 in week four. In week six he got three (Couples' Choice, though) and Maisie got two. There were more tens for both of them after that , and there were only three judges that year because Bruno couldn't actively participate as a judge.
As to Tyler, I suppose he only ended up in dance-offs near the end of his time on the show, rather than earlier on, like Fleur and Molly. There wasn't enough time to have a "Why is no one voting for Tyler?" thread, because by the point it became apparent that he didn't have a big vote, he'd gone. I'd say that the problem for him was getting most of the exciting, high scoring, easy vote winners early, so he secured high marks at the start and people warmed to him. Once his dance card became tilted towards "ten" dances, the slight technical weaknesses he had became more obvious, partly due to the height difference between him and Dianne, and the field had narrowed.
Exactly and its probably why most of the ones getting 10s early doors end up in the dance off and out of the competition when they probably would have got more public support if they were getting 8s or 9s instead and the not so good ones were getting a six instead of 8 for a lacklustre dance.