Barack Obama Lamented the Attack on Paul Pelosi. Then He Got Heckled.

Former President Barack Obama was twice interrupted by hecklers Saturday at a campaign rally in Detroit for Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and other Democrats, a reminder that it is easier to call for civility in American politics than to achieve it.

In the first incident, less than 10 minutes after Obama took the stage, a man in the crowd shouted at him while he was lamenting Friday’s attack on Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband, Paul Pelosi, and the rise of violent political rhetoric.

“We’ve got politicians who work to stir up division to try to make us angry and afraid of one another for their own advantage,” Obama said. “Sometimes it can turn dangerous.”

Moments later, the man, who was not identified, shouted “Mr. President” at Obama, creating an off-script exchange that the former president tried to use to drive home his point. The rest of what the man said was not picked up by microphones or cameras.

“This is what I mean,” Obama said. “Right now I’m talking. You’ll have a chance to talk sometime.”

Obama told the man, “You wouldn’t do that in a workplace. It’s not how we do things. This is part of the point I want to make. Just basic civility and courtesy works.”

About seven minutes later, another heckler interrupted Obama, who later said that the current lack of respect in political discourse was different from when he first ran for president in 2008. At the time, he said, he could visit Republican areas and engage in a positive dialogue with those who disagreed with him politically.

But that’s not the case now, said Obama, who juxtaposed the concession of Sen. John McCain, his Republican opponent for president in 2008, with former President Donald Trump’s refusal to concede the 2020 election to President Joe Biden.

“American democracy is also on the ballot,” Obama said. “With few notable exceptions, most Republican politicians right now are not even pretending that the rules apply to them. They seem to be OK with just making stuff up.”

Obama said that Republicans had not taken responsibility for their shortcomings as a party and were looking to assign blame for electoral defeats. He recalled his overwhelming defeat in a Democratic primary for a House seat in 2000.

“I got whooped, and let me tell you, I was frustrated,” Obama said. “You know what I didn’t do? I didn’t claim the election was rigged. I took my lumps.”

This article originally appeared in The New York Times .