EE Ben upcoming story Spoilers if you don't know.

marieukxxmarieukxx Posts: 4,830
Forum Member
✭✭✭
This may be controversial but I am really not looking forward to the rape storyline. I've had enough of Ben and his moping about tbh. I really don't want to see more. I actually liked the new character so it's a shame they are going down this route with him. I get people can come across as nice and not be but still.

Comments

  • O-JO-J Posts: 18,805
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I wont be watching, Ben's my favourite character i dont want to see these scenes

    He's had enough misery already
  • Gwaed WaedlydGwaed Waedlyd Posts: 5,401
    Forum Member
    It's a topic needing to be covered though

    However more misery for Ben is a bit ott... although I suppose that's why he is picked to be raped, his self worth is all ready at a all time low and his marriage in strained atm so perfect victim sadly.

    Just fed up more than anything Ben seems to get all the storylines when other male characters get nothing and it's not like they are any less better actors than max bowden. Vinny jay zach and callum for example are just as good actors when given the material to shine and most don't have storylines in the case of jay and vinny, or are just there by association with another (zach and callum)
  • marieukxxmarieukxx Posts: 4,830
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    It's a topic needing to be covered though

    However more misery for Ben is a bit ott... although I suppose that's why he is picked to be raped, his self worth is all ready at a all time low and his marriage in strained atm so perfect victim sadly.

    Just fed up more than anything Ben seems to get all the storylines when other male characters get nothing and it's not like they are any less better actors than max bowden. Vinny jay zach and callum for example are just as good actors when given the material to shine and most don't have storylines in the case of jay and vinny, or are just there by association with another (zach and callum)

    I agree it's a good topic but like you said it's all Ben yet again.
  • gwendagwenda Posts: 3,057
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I understand why some people don't want this plot to happen as it is an example of more Ben overload. But he is a good character to explore rape with. To begin with he's reckless and impulsive. He's struggled with his sexual identity and as a result struggled with the idea of commitment. He then had a mental leap and committed to Paul, only for Paul to be murdered. Plus there are all the conflicts with his dad, trying to live up to Phil's expectations. I'm not sure Ben really knows who he is and I think this will make his upcoming recovery harder.

    I thought they might have given him a date-rape story when he was being promiscuous (whilst played by Harry). Or even have him raped by Luke Wilmott Brown.

    I think research shows that rape survivors usually know their attacker. Ben thinks he knows Lewis but obviously not well enough. Lewis comes across as comfortably gay. That's something Ben admires hence he is drawn to him but it will become apparent that they are on very different playing fields.

    Men like Lewis exist. He doesn't listen when someone says "no". Hopefully the plot will demonstrate that there are predatory gay men, as well as predatory straight men.
  • marieukxxmarieukxx Posts: 4,830
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    gwenda wrote: »
    I understand why some people don't want this plot to happen as it is an example of more Ben overload. But he is a good character to explore rape with. To begin with he's reckless and impulsive. He's struggled with his sexual identity and as a result struggled with the idea of commitment. He then had a mental leap and committed to Paul, only for Paul to be murdered. Plus there are all the conflicts with his dad, trying to live up to Phil's expectations. I'm not sure Ben really knows who he is and I think this will make his upcoming recovery harder.

    I thought they might have given him a date-rape story when he was being promiscuous (whilst played by Harry). Or even have him raped by Luke Wilmott Brown.

    I think research shows that rape survivors usually know their attacker. Ben thinks he knows Lewis but obviously not well enough. Lewis comes across as comfortably gay. That's something Ben admires hence he is drawn to him but it will become apparent that they are on very different playing fields.

    Men like Lewis exist. He doesn't listen when someone says "no". Hopefully the plot will demonstrate that there are predatory gay men, as well as predatory straight men.

    Oh I agree men like him exist as it happened to me. I'm just sick of more Ben misery
  • MaksonMakson Posts: 30,451
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I hope they portray it in a subtle and sensitive way and not a simple drugged/date rape situation, as the lines can appear more muddied and blurred when it comes to gay sex and this would be interesting to explore.
  • persipersi Posts: 21,689
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Makson wrote: »
    I hope they portray it in a subtle and sensitive way and not a simple drugged/date rape situation, as the lines can appear more muddied and blurred when it comes to gay sex and this would be interesting to explore.

    Same here.

    According to Max's recent interview they worked with an intimacy coordinator to choreograph the assault and the scenes leading up to it, which I think is a good sign.
  • jeff_saundjeff_saund Posts: 454
    Forum Member
    persi wrote: »
    Makson wrote: »
    I hope they portray it in a subtle and sensitive way and not a simple drugged/date rape situation, as the lines can appear more muddied and blurred when it comes to gay sex and this would be interesting to explore.

    Same here.

    According to Max's recent interview they worked with an intimacy coordinator to choreograph the assault and the scenes leading up to it, which I think is a good sign.

    I just did a search to learn what an intimacy coordinator does. I remember reading early on when the story was announced that we would not see the actual act but that it would be implied, so I'm curious how much intimacy coordination was necessary. We'll find out next Monday.

    When I first heard about the story, I was skeptical. Now that we see the set up, however, isn't as careless as I anticipated.
  • Matt35Matt35 Posts: 29,797
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Will this change public opinion of Ben? I don’t think so. Yes viewers will feel sorry for him for what has happened but in the end this he’s just not well liked. EE probably know this so have chosen him to change that. I think someone like Callum or vinny would have been a better choice.
  • Chris_RisbyChris_Risby Posts: 149
    Forum Member
    I think this could coincide in a suicide attempt from Ben when he realised he can't tell anyone about what happened.
  • Jean_DanielsJean_Daniels Posts: 5,031
    Forum Member
    marieukxx wrote: »
    This may be controversial but I am really not looking forward to the rape storyline. I've had enough of Ben and his moping about tbh. I really don't want to see more. I actually liked the new character so it's a shame they are going down this route with him. I get people can come across as nice and not be but still.

    Hasnt this been done before with david from corrie
  • omar.omar. Posts: 508
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I don't know why they're doing the whole rape topic again, it's been done enough on the show
  • SoapQueen83SoapQueen83 Posts: 1,289
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    omar. wrote: »
    I don't know why they're doing the whole rape topic again, it's been done enough on the show

    Not gay rape though?
  • wwinterjwwinterj Posts: 1,168
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.
  • Tanya1982Tanya1982 Posts: 16,939
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    edited 26/05/22 - 22:29 #16
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.
  • solostarsolostar Posts: 9,505
    Forum Member
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.
  • Tanya1982Tanya1982 Posts: 16,939
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    edited 27/05/22 - 07:20 #18
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.
  • marieukxxmarieukxx Posts: 4,830
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Tbh I found it well done actually. Sad it had to be Ben being overused again, another male actor could have been involved. I know this things happens and it's absolutely awful when you feel you can't come forward or be believed for whatever reason. I pray he tells his mum and Callum at least.
  • gwendagwenda Posts: 3,057
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.

    Exactly.

    Lewis didn't rape Ben because he knew Ben was a bit of a bad lad.

    Lewis wasn't acting as a vigilante, getting revenge on behalf of the people Ben has hassled over the years. He didn't rape Ben because Ben had killed Heather and Lewis thought he hadn't been punished enough for it.

    He raped Ben because he didn't care that Ben was saying no. Lewis by that stage was adrenaline up and horny as hell and wanted to have sex with him, even though Ben had yelled at him to stop and was trying to push him away . We could see from Ben that he was horrified by what was unfolding. Lewis would have also seen it, but didn't care.

  • DeschanelDeschanel Posts: 8,732
    Forum Member
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.

    You’ll find many people don’t have much compassion for people who do horrible things, who are subjected to something horrible themselves, like rape. I’m not saying that’s right, just that I can understand why some might struggle to feel sorry for Ben.

    Lewis is a rapist, someone who showed time and again that he didn’t care about other people’s boundaries; it was all about having power over Ben. He likely has done the same thing before and will carry on doing so. I hope Ben finds the courage to speak up and realise he wasn’t to blame.
  • wwinterjwwinterj Posts: 1,168
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    edited 27/05/22 - 17:39 #22
    Deschanel wrote: »
    You’ll find many people don’t have much compassion for people who do horrible things, who are subjected to something horrible themselves, like rape. I’m not saying that’s right, just that I can understand why some might struggle to feel sorry for Ben.

    This is how I feel. I also feel the rape storyline would have been better for another character. Ben acting as a vigilante was the current storyline for him and still hasn't been resolved so to throw in a separate issue like rape just makes things conflicted and thus as a viewer I can't suddenly switch my feelings. I feel both storyline should be treated with respect and done separate rather than just rolled into one.

  • Collins1965Collins1965 Posts: 13,806
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.

    It IS relevant to how he is perceived though and how much more sympathy a character like Jay or Callum would get if it happened to them. It must have been a deliberate choice to choose Ben so is it the start of a rehabilitation storyline for him I wonder?
    Rape is rape no matter how likable or unlikeable the person it happens to but it's hard to forget all the horrible things Ben has done.
  • DeschanelDeschanel Posts: 8,732
    Forum Member
    wwinterj wrote: »
    Deschanel wrote: »
    You’ll find many people don’t have much compassion for people who do horrible things, who are subjected to something horrible themselves, like rape. I’m not saying that’s right, just that I can understand why some might struggle to feel sorry for Ben.

    This is how I feel. I also feel the rape storyline would have been better for another character. Ben acting as a vigilante was the current storyline for him and still hasn't been resolved so to throw in a separate issue like rape just makes things conflicted and thus as a viewer I can't suddenly switch my feelings. I feel both storyline should be treated with respect and done separate rather than just rolled into one.

    Yeah, it’s all played out exactly as I suspected. They’ve really downplayed Ben being a serial attacker from his family - especially from Callum who got passed it way too easily. It’s a huge deal to learn you are married to a violent attacker regardless of Ben’s reasoning. There’s a lot of story there already, but the rape is designed to get other characters to forgive him, like Kathy and Callum.

    I think that obvious agenda is problematic. On a separate note, I really wish they would write Kathy with some personality and not with such a generic voice. The fact they had her suggest Ben gets therapy for a “sex addiction” but not for all the trauma and internalised shame and being a violent attacker was a joke.
  • Tanya1982Tanya1982 Posts: 16,939
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Deschanel wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.

    You’ll find many people don’t have much compassion for people who do horrible things, who are subjected to something horrible themselves, like rape. I’m not saying that’s right, just that I can understand why some might struggle to feel sorry for Ben.

    Lewis is a rapist, someone who showed time and again that he didn’t care about other people’s boundaries; it was all about having power over Ben. He likely has done the same thing before and will carry on doing so. I hope Ben finds the courage to speak up and realise he wasn’t to blame.

    Yes, you do find that. Obfuscation sadly reigns.
  • Tanya1982Tanya1982 Posts: 16,939
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    edited 27/05/22 - 19:33 #26
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    solostar wrote: »
    Tanya1982 wrote: »
    wwinterj wrote: »
    The issue I have here is not the topic covered but that it's with Ben who has been going around attacking people. It's hard for me to feel sorry for Ben based on this.

    Perhaps try to separate the two things, being that they are separate.

    On the one hand you have the things Ben has done, and on the other hand you have the thing that Lewis has done. Those things aren't connected. Rapists and their defence teams have argued for decades - often with great success - that who the victim is and what they've done in their own life, including leading up to the rape itself, are connected. They aren't. They are entirely separate things.

    It's perfectly possible to be a generally unpleasant person who is also subjected to something terrible by someone who preys on others - their previous general unpleasantness doesn't have any bearing on it. If you went through the life of any victim of any crime, you'd find something (possibly even a majority of things) that you don't like about that person. That's not the criteria that's relevant.

    Ben isn't an unpleasant person though he's a violent thug.

    FGS. What he is is neither here nor there. He could be a saint, he could be a serial killer - it's not relevant to what a sexual predator chose to do to him.

    It IS relevant to how he is perceived though and how much more sympathy a character like Jay or Callum would get if it happened to them. It must have been a deliberate choice to choose Ben so is it the start of a rehabilitation storyline for him I wonder?
    Rape is rape no matter how likable or unlikeable the person it happens to but it's hard to forget all the horrible things Ben has done.

    I don't like Ben, I haven't forgotten his own crimes and wrongs, or suggested anyone should. I have clearly, consistently, and correctly said it is not relevant.

    I understand that some obtuse people - who have fallen over themselves to conflate issues, to declare they don't and can't care, to repeatedly point out that the victim isn't a nice person, that compassion should always be conditional on completely unrelated factors - are of the view that unless the person it happened to is a perfect saint whose innocent nature has been despoiled by wickedness, it's ok to simply insist they are dehumanized scum who have totally forfeited the right to dispassionate legal justice and morally decent treatment.

    I understand that such people are of the view that some people 'get what's coming to them', even when what's happened has nothing to do with what's gone before. I understand that people struggle with the idea that rapists aren't all reptilian 'boo hiss' villains but can have surface charm and even be quite nice looking. I understand that some people even think if you don't fight back, or you set out to have sex that day, you haven't actually been raped - I've read that explicitly stated on these pages this week. It doesn't make any of it true, much less desirable.

    I understand that those who speak up for such a worldview are actually in favour of the lawless thuggery and compromised humanity they denigrate others for, as long as they can conceptualize it as vengeance - vengeance that counts as permissible only when they each personally start the measuring clock and approve the criteria. That's not a moral position, it's the opposite. It would be a frightening and unsafe society - your human rights dependent on someone's perception of your worth. I just hope these people are never called for jury duty.

    Are EE attempting 'rehab through rape'? In my view no, because that's not possible. Who Ben (or anyone who is raped) is, and who Lewis (or any rapist) is, are two unrelated things. A person isn't positively 'rehabilitated' by becoming a victim of serious crime any more than they should be negatively stigmatized for it. I do understand that some people see it differently - they do apply rehabilitation or stigma based on how they choose to weave unconnected issues together, and they obfuscate and complicate things for others, not least for those trying to survive life.
Sign In or Register to comment.