George and Ashwini. All photographs: Joel Goodman/The Guardian

Dining across the divide: ‘He takes a Dominic Cummings approach of razing things to the ground’

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She’s lived and worked in Europe, he wants to abolish the EU. Can these strangers find common ground over dinner?

Click here if you’d like to dine across the divide

Ashwini, 41, Manchester

Occupation Solicitor
Voting record Conservative in the past “out of naivety”, and since then Lib Dem. Voted remain
Amuse bouche Elbow’s Guy Garvey once let her try a sip of his pint. It was a stout

George, 24, Buxton, Derbyshire

Occupation Bar staff at a brewery
Voting record Remain, aged 18; Labour in the 2019 election. Now defines himself as a democratic socialist, and would not support a pro-European party or remain again
Amuse bouche Is a craft beer connoisseur and has started brewing as a hobby

For starters

George I was sitting there waiting with my pint for about 15 minutes. It made me nervous, but the beer was excellent.

Ashwini I arrived at the agreed time. I thought: God, he’s so young. Like a blond Harry Potter.

George I had pasta and beef ragu, and a hazy pale ale. We made a conscious effort to lay out some common ground before we got into politics.

Ashwini I had the lobster mac and cheese. But we were talking so much I don’t think either of us finished our meals. I’m chatty, but he was doing a lot of talking.

The big beef

George She went over her experience of having lived in Italy and her perspective on the right to live and work abroad. I’m a democratic socialist, so I can’t be in favour of the European Union because it is a fundamentally capitalist and neoliberal project.

Dining across the divide: ‘She used the word “snowflake” and I hate that’

Ashwini I feel very sad about Brexit – it’s denying opportunities to the younger generation.

George The right to live and work abroad isn’t necessarily a universal good. For me, a surplus of labour is detrimental because it depresses wages. It is detrimental for migrant labourers, because they’re willing to settle for less, which means they can undercut British workers’ wages.

Ashwini That’s not the EU’s fault. It comes down to the employers exploiting the workforce.

George We agreed that migrant labourers should be treated better. But if the EU is allowing free movement of labour, it should have a hand in regulating workers’ rights, and it hasn’t done enough. I’m very much for abolishing the EU.

Ashwini It does need reform, but he took a Dominic Cummings approach of razing it to the ground and starting again. I don’t think that’s practical.

Sharing plate

Ashwini Neither of us agree with vaccine mandates because where do you stop? We were talking about employers who say they aren’t going to offer full sick pay for anyone who got Covid while unvaccinated. At what point can your employer start demanding things about your health status?

George Mandatory vaccinations are a step towards authoritarianism.

For afters

Ashwini We both agreed that this government is just awful. Although I have never voted Labour, I would if it meant getting the Tories out.

George Labour needs to be electable. But that cannot come at the expense of its principles. Labour is, in its constitution, a democratic socialist party, not a neoliberal centre-left party. I was willing to give Keir Starmer a chance, but he has broken so many promises he made in his election campaign.

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Ashwini No one’s saying that you have to completely trash your principles. Later on, he did sort of say if it came to a Johnson v Starmer contest in 2024, he would vote Starmer – well, surely that’s you sacrificing your principles for electability?

George I will vote based on the policy platform that Labour puts forward.

Takeaways

Ashwini I thought it was lovely that someone so young had such an interest in politics. But I wonder whether his more binary viewpoints come from a lack of life experience. That sounds awfully patronising, and I really don’t mean to be.

George Both of us only became politically engaged from around 2016. I think it’s fine for an 18-year-old to be politically ignorant or inactive, but I don’t think it’s a good thing for adults to go through a large part of their life and only start engaging in politics because something’s gone wrong.

Ashwini We shook hands at the end – it was friendly.

George I enjoyed that we didn’t agree on everything; it was a healthy debate.