NARAL Pro-Choice America New President Mini Timmaraju

[MUSIC] >> Bonnie Erbe: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

JOINING US TODAY IS THE NEWLY APPOINTED PRESIDENT OF NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA MANY TOMORROW YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, BONNIE.

THE LIGHT TO BE HERE.

THRILLED TO BE HERE.

BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR WORK -- >> Bonnie Erbe: THANK YOU, YOU ARE TOO KIND.

YOU HAVE A HUGE JOB CUT OUT FOR YOURSELF.

LET'S DO A LITTLE HISTORY HERE.

I THINK THE HIGH POINT FOR ABORTION RIGHTS AT LEAST IN TERMS OF LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY WAS PROBABLY THE DECADE OR SO AFTER ROE WAS HANDED DOWN IN THE EARLY '70S.

EVER SINCE THEN, THERE HAVE BEEN MORE AND MORE AND MORE RESTRICTIVE STATE LAWS APPROVED.

AND EVEN, I BELIEVE, EVEN THOUGH A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS APPROVE OF ABORTION RIGHTS IN SOME FORM, THERE IS NOT AS STRONG SUPPORT AS THERE WAS IN THE '70s AND '80S.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO COMBAT THAT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT, GREAT QUESTION.

IT'S DEFINITELY, WE ARE SEEING THE CULMINATION OF ALMOST SINCE ROE TO NOW, ALMOST 50 YEARS OF THE STEADY DRIP OF RESTRICTIVE REGULATIONS IN THE STATE LEVEL AND SOME CHALLENGES IN THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

ABORTION HAS BECOME INCREDIBLY PARTISAN ISSUE.

IT'S NOT HELPFUL.

IN THE '70s, WE DEFINITELY HAD REPUBLICAN SUPPORT AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT WHITTLE AWAY WITH AT LEAST WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS.

BUT OUR EXTENSIVE PELION RESEARCH AT NARAL PRO-CHOICE AMERICA SHOWS 7/10 AMERICANS SUPPORT REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

THERE WAS RECENTLY I THINK A GREAT POLL PUBLISHED I WANT TO SAY BY ABC AND WASHINGTON POST THAT INDICATED MAJORITY SUPPORT OF THE COUNTRY.

OUR DATA SHOWS MORE SUPPORT AND NOT.

I THINK, FRANKLY, WE HAVE TO REALLY TAKEN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW POLLSTERS ARE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS.

BUT WE KNOW, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS SUPPORT THE RIGHT, THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO ABORTION.

THAT BEING SAID, WE ALSO KNOW WE ARE ENTERING A CHALLENGING PERIOD AS RESULT OF THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, A VERY ANTIABORTION COURT.

WE DON'T WANT TO PUT -- THERE IS NO REASON TO SUGARCOAT IT.

AND WITH THE RECENT ACTIONS OR LACK OF ACTION, I SHOULD SAY, AROUND SP 8 IN TEXAS AND THE UPCOMING DECEMBER 1 HEARING ON THE MISSISSIPPI CASE, JACKSON, THE JACKSON CASE, WE ARE ANTICIPATING SOME BAD NEWS.

I THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS HAVE BEEN REALLY AGGRESSIVE ABOUT PUSHING FORWARD THE WOMEN'S HEALTH PROTECTION ACT.

I WOULD LOVE TO TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IF WE HAVE TIME, BECAUSE I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS WE HAVE A COURT -- WE HAVE ALWAYS COUNTED AS WOMEN, RIGHT, COUNTED ON THE COURTS TO PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, BUT WE ARE IN A MOMENT RIGHT NOW WHERE WE NEED TO COUNT ON CONGRESS TO PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

THEY ARE PREPARED TO DO SO.

WE HAVE TO TAKE ALL OF THE ENERGY AROUND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND REALLY AT NARAL, WHAT NARAL WILL DO IS LEVERAGE THAT TO A LOOK AT THE ISSUES BACK TO THE FOREFRONT AGAIN INTO NEXT YEAR'S MIDTERMS, WHICH WE KNOW THE CHALLENGING.

BUT WE I DON'T BELIEVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WILL STAND FOR A ROLLBACK OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM -- > Bonnie Erbe: WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IF THE SUPREME COURT -- I COVERED THE COURT FOR NINE YEARS IN THE LATE '80s AND THROUGH MOST OF THE '90s.

BACK THEN, IT WAS ALWAYS SAID THAT EVEN AS THE NUMBER OF CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES GREW ON THE COURT, THAT THEY WOULD NEVER OVERTURN ROE.

THEY MIGHT TAKE ALL OF ITS POWER AWAY, DEFLATE IT COMPLETELY, BUT THEY WOULD NOT OVERTURN AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, VERBIAGE APPROVING A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE, FOR FEAR OF DEMONSTRATIONS.

>> Mini Timmaraju: THE KIND OF BACKLASH THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: RIGHT.

ECONOMIC HAVOC, WOMEN'S WRITING, ETC.

ETC.THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: RIGHT.

ECONOMIC HAVOC, WOMEN'S WRITING, ETC.

ETC.

THEY DID NOT WANT TO BRING THAT.

THEY WERE NOT SO POLITICAL THAT THEY WERE WILLING TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF OVERTURNING ROE.

HAS THAT CHANGED?

>> Mini Timmaraju: IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THAT'S CHANGED.

BUT I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT THAT I WANT TO REWIND REALLY QUICKLY.

YOU SAID THEY WOULD GO ALL THE WAY UP TO JUST SHORT OF THE TECHNICALITY OF OVERTURNING ROE.

WE ARE ANTICIPATING THAT.

BUT WHAT YOU ALSO SAID WAS EFFECTIVELY DOES NOT MATTER.

THEY ARE EFFECTIVELY MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR WOMEN AND PEOPLE, REPRODUCTIVE, OF REPRODUCTIVE AGE TO ACCESS ABORTION.

THAT'S THE CRITICAL PIECE.

AND WE AS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS ADVOCATES HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB WITH OUR ALLIES AND OUR PARTNERS OF EDUCATING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT EVEN IF THEY LET ROE STAND ON A TECHNICALITY, THE LACK OF ACCESS TO ABORTION WHICH HAS EFFECTIVELY MADE ROE OVERTURNING PLACES LIKE TEXAS AND POTENTIALLY MISSISSIPPI IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE HAPPEN IN 26 STATES.

IMMEDIATELY, IF THE COURT DECIDES TO UPHOLD THE MISSISSIPPI BAN.

I THINK YOU CAN HAVE LEGAL SCHOLARS ON OR YOU COULD HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT THE TECHNICALITY OF ROE, BUT ULTIMATELY WE ALREADY KNOW AND SIGNIFICANT PARTS OF AMERICA, WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION, WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FULL RANGE OF CARE, AND WE ARE BEING HAMSTRUNG IN OUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE THE LATEST MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIES MAKE IT EASY.

IN A MOMENT WHERE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE MORE REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND ACCESS THAN EVER, SOME LEGISLATURES ARE MAKING IT HARDER.

SO ANYTHING SHORT OF AN ACTUAL PROTECTION EXPANSION OF RIGHTS IS A LOSS.

AND I THINK AMERICAN WOMEN ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: WHAT ABOUT YOUNG WOMEN?

ARE THEY PAYING AS MUCH ATTENTION AS YOUNG WOMEN OF MY GENERATION WORK?

BACK THEN, THERE WERE MARCHES, THERE WERE STRIKES, THERE WERE CONSTANT NEWS CONFERENCES.

AND THERE WASN'T THIS -- IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT TO ORGANIZE.

APPARENTLY, I HAVE READ DATA OR STORIES THAT SHOW THAT PARTICULARLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS NOT ORGANIZED WHEN ROE WAS HANDED DOWN.

THEY DID NOT EXPECT IT.

AND SO, IT TOOK THEM 10 OR MORE YEARS TO GET GOING.

NOW THEY HAVE GOTTEN GOING ALL THE WAY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE WINNING.

I THINK MOST POLITICAL ANALYSTS WOULD LOOK AT THE SITUATION AND SAY THEY ARE WINNING, REGARDLESS OF PUBLIC OPINION.

>> Mini Timmaraju: YES.

I THINK THAT'S RIGHT THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS AN UNPRECEDENTED TIME OF MINORITY RULE IN A VARIETY OF AREAS OF PUBLIC OPINION, NOT JUST ABORTION AND IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE EXTREMELY MINDFUL OF.

CAMPAIGNS OF MISINFORMATION, DEGRADATION OF DEMOCRACY, VOTING RIGHTS.

ALL THESE THINGS ARE IMPACTING OUR ABILITY TO HAVE ELECTED LEADERS AND LEGISLATIVE BODIES THAT TRULY REFLECT PUBLIC OPINION.

TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE YOUNGER GENERATION, I WILL BE CANDID: I WAS BORN A MONTH AFTER ROE V WADE WAS DECIDED.

I HAVE ONLY HAD, THANKS TO WOMEN OF MY MOTHER'S GENERATION, YOUR GENERATION, I HAVE HAD ACCESS IN MY POSTURE SHOW RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED.

SINCE EFFECTIVELY SINCE I WAS BORN, IMMIGRATED TO THIS COUNTRY.

I'VE ONLY KNOWN A COUNTRY WHERE WE'VE HAD ROE AS THE FUNDAMENTAL LAW OF THE LAND.

SO WE DO HAVE SOME WORK TO DO TO GENERATE, FRANKLY, OUTRAGE IN ALL AMERICANS, AND WE DO HAVE TO DOUBLE DOWN ON OUR COMMUNICATION TO YOUNGER WOMEN AND YOUNGER ADVOCATES.

AND I THINK YOUNG MEN ARE PAYING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THIS?

.

THEY HAVE A MUCH MORE PROGRESSIVE VIEWPOINT TO WHAT THE FULL RANGE OF PRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE LOOKS LIKE FOR AMERICANS.

I WILL SAY THIS, WHICH GIVES ME HOPE: WHAT GIVES ME HOPE, I WORKED ON THE 2016 CAMPAIGN FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

I WAS HER WOMEN'S VOTE DIRECTOR.

IT WAS A REALLY TOUGH TIME.

GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS LIKE THAT WHEN YOU ASKED ME ABOUT MELANIA WOMEN, YOUNGER WOMEN AND THEIR SUPPORT OF THE SECRETARY.

IN THE END, WE FOUND WE HAD A LOT OF SUPPORT.

WE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

YOUNGER WOMEN SUPPORT OUR CANDIDATE.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHEN WE LOST, WE SAW AN UPRISING OF WOMEN THAT HAVE SUSTAINED ITSELF WITH THE WOMEN'S MARCH.

WE SAW ACTIVISTS DOING MARCHES AND RALLIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AFTER A.

>> Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson: -- SB 8.

WE ARE SEEING A YOUNGER GENERATION OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND JUSTICE ADVOCATES, PARTICULARLY LED BY WOMEN OF COLOR, YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR, RISING UP IN THE STATES AND SAYING ABSOLUTELY NOT ON MY WATCH, BANS OFF OUR BODIES.

THAT GIVES ME TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HOPE FOR THIS NEXT GENERATION AND IT'S THE ENTHUSIASM THAT WOMEN OF MY GENERATION NEED TO CONTINUE TO SUSTAIN THE FIGHT THAT WOMEN BEFORE US HAVE STARTED THE '70S.

SO IN AND OUT IT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH, TOUGH TIME, BUT OUT OF GREAT ADVERSITY COMES, FRANKLY, INNOVATION AND GREAT STRATEGY.

I THINK WE WILL SEE REALLY EXCITING THINGS HAPPEN IN THE MOVEMENT NEXT YEAR.

>> Bonnie Erbe: LET'S GET BACK TO CONGRESS.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HEAVILY LOBBYING IN CONGRESS FOR ACCESS TO CHOICE.

OBVIOUSLY, THE HOUSE IS HELD BY DEMOCRATS NOW BY A FIVE VOTE MAJORITY.

THE SENATE IS SPLIT EVENLY WITH VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS COMING INTO WEIGHT IN THE DEMOCRATS' FAVOR.

HOW MUCH MEANINGFUL LEGISLATION CAN YOU GET PAST WITH THESE SLIMMEST OF MAJORITY?

>> Mini Timmaraju: WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR SLIM MAJORITIES IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE THE FILIBUSTER.

WE'VE BEEN PRETTY UNEQUIVOCAL ABOUT THAT.

HAVE BEEN PRETTY CLEAR WITH OUR COLLEAGUE, OUR FRIENDS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE.

WE NEED THAT TO FUNDAMENTALLY PROTECT VOTING RIGHTS, WHICH IS THE BASELINE FOR ALL OF THESE FIGHTS.

LET'S BE CLEAR.

WE NEED THAT TO PROTECT ROE AND BYPASSING THE WOMEN'S HEALTH PROTECTION ACT.

WE KNOW THAT THE DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE ARE COMMITTED TO DOING THIS BUT WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE THE FILIBUSTER FIRST.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH.

WE HAVE TO -- >> Bonnie Erbe: PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING THAT FOR A WHILE NOW AND IT HAS NOT WORKED.

>> Mini Timmaraju: I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP PUSHING.

IT'S NOT OVER YET.

WE DID YOU SEE THE PRESIDENT PAST THE BIG INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, WORKING ON BILL THAT BETTER, PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

AVENUE SAY SOMETHING THAT NARAL IN THE PRODUCTIVE RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS ARE DEEPLY COMMITTED TO.

THERE'S A CONTINUUM OF ISSUES THAT AFFECT WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT STARTS WITH REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND CHILDCARE AND ACCESS TO PAID FAMILY LEAVE IS A CRITICAL PIECE OF THAT.

SO WE ARE TAKING THE STEPS TOWARDS GETTING TO THAT MOMENT.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

IT WILL BE VERY CHALLENGING.

LET'S SAY WE GET THERE AND WE ARE HOPEFUL AND, FRANKLY, THIS IS ALL PART OF THE CONTINUING ADVOCACY, RIGHT?

WE WILL ONLY GET THERE BY REALLY TURNING OUT NUMBERS AROUND THE COUNTRY, AROUND DECEMBER 1, AROUND SCOTUS, AROUND -- WE HAVE TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON OUR FRIENDS IN THE SENATE.

THEY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING BUT WE HAVE TO HELP THEM DO THE RIGHT THING.

THEN WE HAVE TO GET PAST NEXT YEAR'S MIDTERMS.

SO WE CANNOT MOVE, WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THE ENERGY AND THE OUTRAGE AROUND WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE COURT'S TO THE BALLOT BOX.

SO AT NARAL OR WHAT WE GET TO DO IS REALLY 360 ADVOCACY.

WE START WITH ELECTIONS, WE WORK ON THE HILL, WE ADVOCATE LEGISLATURES AND BACK AT THE BALLOT BOX.

WE HAVE TO SHOW -- DEMOCRATS HAVE TO SHOW AMERICANS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DELIVER.

IT STARTS WITH WOMEN'S HEALTH PROTECTION ACT AND THAT WILL HELP US MOTIVATE FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND IT.

IT IS CONGRESS THAT WILL PROTECT OUR CONGRESSIONAL, CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS IN THE TIME THAT THE COURTS ARE FAILING US.

>> Bonnie Erbe: LET ME TALK ABOUT TWO TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS IN THE LAST 50 YEARS THAT HAVE REALLY HAD AN IMPACT, 14, ONE AGAINST WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

THE FIRST ONE IS THE SONOGRAM.

THERE WAS A CHANGE IN ATTITUDE ON THE PART OF WOMEN AROUND THIS COUNTRY WHEN THEY COULD START SEEING A PICTURE OF THE FETUS IN THE UTERUS.

WHAT DID THE ABORTION RIGHTS MOVEMENT DO TO TRY TO COUNTERACT THAT, IF ANYTHING?

AND HOW MUCH DAMAGE DO THEY DO TO SUPPORT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS?

>> Mini Timmaraju: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I WILL SAY THIS: I WORKED IN THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE ON BEHALF OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD WHEN ONE OF THE VERY FIRST SONOGRAM BILLS WAS INTRODUCED.

AND, FRANKLY, PAST.

I CAN TELL YOU FIRSTHAND FROM OUR WORK -- >> Bonnie Erbe: SONOGRAM BILLS MEETING REQUIRING WOMEN TO HAVE A SONOGRAM BEFORE THEY COULD HAVE AN ABORTION.

>> Mini Timmaraju: CALLED IT, I BELIEVE THEY CALLED IT THE MANDATORY ULTRASOUND BILL.

YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY SHOW THE PREGNANT WOMAN HER ULTRASOUND AND HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER ABOUT IT AND THERE HAD TO BE A MANDATORY WAITING PERIOD BETWEEN THE TIME SHE VIEWED HER SONOGRAM OR ULTRASOUND AND THE TIME SHE MADE THE DECISION TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

MOST WOMEN WHO ARE HAVING AN ABORTION, IF THEY ARE GIVEN ALL OF THEIR ACCESS TO CARE, OR DOING IT EARLY ENOUGH THAT WE FOUND THAT THE SONOGRAMS DID NOT ACTUALLY -- THEY DID NOT HAVE ANY MATERIAL EFFECT ON HER DECISION.

THEY DID HAVE AN EFFECT ON HIS PSYCHOLOGICAL WELL-BEING.

THEY WERE BULLYING AND INTIMIDATION TACTICS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT SONOGRAM AND ULTRA ULTRASOUND GRANT BILLS DO IS ASSUME A LEVEL OF NORTH AND CALLOUSNESS FROM WOMEN ABOUT THEIR OWN BODIES IN THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE CHOICES.

THEY ALSO ASSUME THAT MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS NEED LEGISLATURES TO TELL THEM HOW TO PROPERLY COUNSEL AND ADVISE THEIR PATIENTS.

THEY ARE DEEPLY INSULTING, THEY PREY UPON SOME OF THE WORST ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WOMEN AND OUR CHOICES AND THEY ARE, FRANKLY, LARGELY INEFFECTIVE EXCEPT TO CREATE ADDITIONAL BARRIERS AND COST TO PATIENTS.

SO, NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT SONOGRAM -- I THINK THE ADVENT OF THE SONOGRAM, AS A MOM MYSELF, HAVING THE CHANCE TO SEE MY CHILDREN FOR THE FIRST TIME ON THE SONOGRAM, IT CAN BE REALLY BEAUTIFUL, POWERFUL MOMENT.

BUT WHEN DID I HAVE THE CHANCE TO ACTUALLY -- I WILL BE CLEAR AND SAY MY CHILDREN ARE ADOPTED.

I WAS LUCKY THAT I GOT TO SEE THEM ON A SONOGRAM.

BUT WHEN IS THE EARLIEST TIME MOST PREGNANT PEOPLE CAN SEE A SONOGRAM, CAN SEE EVIDENCE OF A CHILD ON A SONOGRAM?

BY THEN, MOST ABORTIONS HAVE BEEN DONE.

I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION THAT THE RIGHT HAS EFFECTIVELY UTILIZED TO MISLEAD AMERICANS ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE LIKE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: BUT THE RIGHT ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE 2ND AND 3RD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS, RAISE -- HOW RARE IS THAT AND HOW MUCH IS IT EXAGGERATED AS A POLITICAL TOOL?

>> Mini Timmaraju: PRETTY RARE.

IS DRAMATICALLY EXAGGERATED AS A POLITICAL TOOL.

WE KNOW MOST AMERICANS WHO HAVE -- CHOOSE ABORTION AT THAT LATE DATE HAVE COMPELLING CIRCUMSTANCES.

THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS DEBATES ON THE HOUSE FLOOR AROUND SO-CALLED LATE-TERM ABORTION.

THESE ARE ALL TACTICS TO CONFLATE AND DEFLECT FROM THE REALITY OF THE CHOICES PEOPLE MAKE AROUND ABORTION AND REPRODUCTIVE CARE.

I THINK THAT'S WHY WE ARE SEEING IN TEXAS REALLY OUTRAGEOUS EFFORTS TO TAKE THE CHOICES AWAY FROM FAMILIES, EVEN EARLIER THAN 15 WEEKS, BECAUSE THEY KEEP LOSING THESE ARGUMENTS.

IF THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS TRULY BOUGHT THE ARGUMENTS OF THE RATE, WE WOULD NOT BE SEEING, NOT BE SEEING THESE TYPES OF REALLY INSANE BILLS COMING OUT OF TEXAS AND MISSISSIPPI.

>> Bonnie Erbe: WHY?

EXPLAIN THAT FOR ME.

>> Mini Timmaraju: BECAUSE I THINK THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, LIKE OUR POLLING AND RESEARCH SHOWS, SUPPORT REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND THEY DO NOT WANT LEGISLATURES OR THE COURTS IN THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS BETWEEN A WOMAN, PREGNANT PERSON AND THE DOCTOR, PERIOD.

>> Bonnie Erbe: IS THE WHOLE DISPUTE OVER ABORTION RIGHTS, AND I STILL WANT TO GET BACK TO THE SECOND TECHNOLOGICAL ABORTION, WHICH IS THE CHEMICAL ABORTIONS OR PRESCRIPTION ABORTIONS, IS THAT A RELIGIOUS WAR?

>> Mini Timmaraju: YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A GOOD PROXY WAR.

I AM NOT SURE IT'S A RELIGIOUS WAR.

WE ALSO KNOW THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS SUPPORT BIRTH CONTROL AND SOME ACCESS TO ABORTION.

WE KNOW THE MAJORITY OF MOST RELIGIONS DO.

I THINK IT'S AN EXTREME RIGHT VERSUS THE REST OF AMERICA WERE AND I THINK THAT THE EVANGELICAL COMMUNITY HAS ALLOWED ITSELF TO BE PROXY AND SOME, SOME IN THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY AS WELL TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THESE FIGHTS.

I WON'T MINIMIZE IT.

I WORKED IN AN ABORTION PROVIDER.

I HAD TO CROSS THE PROTESTERS EVERY DAY TO DO MY JOB IN HOUSTON, TEXAS, DURING THE 40 DAYS PROTEST.

I WILL NOT MINIMIZE THE EFFECT OF THE ORGANIZING AND THE SAVVY OF THE ORGANIZING ON THE SO-CALLED RELIGIOUS RIGHT.

BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT REPRESENTS ALL AMERICANS OF RELIGIOUS FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY.

>> Bonnie Erbe: THE RIGHT HAS ALSO BEEN, I MEAN, THERE WAS A PROTEST THAT EVERY SATURDAY TO START NOT FAR FROM MY HOUSE, AND I PASS IT EVERY TIME I HAVE TO GET TO THE EXPRESSWAY.

AND THEY ARE SHOWING BLOODIED FETUSES AND ALL OF THIS STUFF, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE PHYSICALLY ILL, I GUESS OVER THE SIGHT OF AN ABORTED FETUS?

AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL PRETTY LATE-TERM ABORTIONS, WHICH, AS YOU MENTION, ARE THE MINORITY, VAST MAJORITY OF ABORTIONS IN AMERICA.

BUT WHY DIDN'T THE LEFT EVER DO THAT KIND OF OPPOSITION RESEARCH THAT THE RIGHT HAS DONE?

WHY NOT INVESTIGATE WHO IS FUNDING THE RIGHT AND TALK PUBLICLY ABOUT WHO IT IS, WHO IS FUNDING THE ANTIABORTION MOVEMENT, WHO IS FUNDING, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS YOU MIGHT SAY THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH, THE INCREASE, THE HUGE INCREASE IN MEMBERS OF EVANGELICAL CHURCHES.

AND DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BECAUSE, THIS IS INDEED LIKE A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN OR HAS BECOME SO, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> Mini Timmaraju: I CANNOT SPEAK FOR THE LARGER MOVEMENT, BUT I WILL GIVE YOU A FEW EXAMPLES: I THINK THESE ARE ALL GREAT POINTS YOU ARE MAKING.

HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF EFFECTIVE RESEARCH AND WORK DONE BY THE REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS MOVEMENT AROUND THE SOURCES OF MISINFORMATION AND CHALLENGING TACTICS ON THE RIGHT.

I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE: IN THE EARLY 2000, NARAL ACTUALLY WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF DOING RESEARCH AND PUBLISHING INFORMATION ABOUT SO-CALLED CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS IN PLACES LIKE TEXAS.

ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE FUNDED BY THE RIGHT AND BY EXTREMISTS TO MISINFORM AMERICAN, AMERICANS ABOUT ACCESS TO SERVICES.

SO THIS ORGANIZATION SET UP TO PROVIDE SO-CALLED FAMILY-PLANNING SERVICES.

AND THEN WE COME IN FOR YOUR SERVICES OR SONOGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE.

THERE WAS A CORRELATION BETWEEN PASSAGE OF SONOGRAM BILLS IN THESE ORGANIZATIONS STANDING UP.

THEN BEING COUNSELED AGAINST ABORTION.

THEY DID REALLY INCREDIBLE, SMART EXPOSE WORK AROUND THIS ISSUE.

THEY WORKED WITH COALITION PARTNERS REMEMBER BECAUSE I WAS LOBBYING THE LEGISLATURE AND WE WERE DISTRIBUTING MISINFORMATION.

THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT WORK HAPPENING.

I THINK THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT IS NOT BREAKING THROUGH IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND THAT THESE ARGUMENTS THAT WORK AT CERTAIN POPULATIONS IN CERTAIN STATES.

SO WE DO HAVE TO DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF AMPLIFYING THE ROOTS OF THESE EXTREMISTS AND THE ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR TACTICS.

AND I THINK, FRANKLY, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC.

WE HAVE AMERICAN FAMILIES GRAPPLING WITH THINGS LIKE CHILD CARE, SAFE SCHOOLS, COVID.

IT'S HARD TO BREAK THROUGH THE NOISE TO GET THEM TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE.HAT IS WHERE IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN ON DECEMBER 1 OF THE SUPREME COURT IS AN OPPORTUNITY.VEN THOUGH IT'S VERY SCARY AND IT'S VERY CHALLENGING, IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO CAPTURE THE ATTENTION OF MAINSTREAM AMERICANS WHO WE KNOW SEVEN TO 10 ARE SUPPORTIVE OF REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM THAT THIS IS, AGAIN, UNDER THREAT.

I THINK A LOT OF US TAKE FOR GRANTED OUR ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, PARTICULARLY THOSE OF US IN STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA, NEW NEW YORK, ON THE COAST!

SO WE NEED THE REMINDER AND WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT ALARMIST.

WE NEED TO BE REALLY RAISING THE ALARM THAT THESE COULD BE TAKEN AWAY, IN 26 STATES IN THIS COUNTRY, THE MINUTE ROE V WADE IS OVERTURNED.

>> Bonnie Erbe: LET'S GET BACK TO THE SECOND TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS OF COURSE THE ABILITY TO TAKE PILLS VERY EARLY ON IN HER PREGNANCY AND THE ZYGOTE OR FETUS, WHATEVER IT IS AT THAT POINT, IS DISMISSED FROM THE BODY.

>> Mini Timmaraju: MEDICAL TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENTS LIKE PLAN B, MEDICATION ABORTION, THOSE ARE WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL ADVANCES FOR REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

AND YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, WHY ARE SO MANY CONSERVATIVE LED MAJORITY LEGISLATORS, LEGISLATURES PUSHING BACK ON ACCESS TO THE SERVICES?

WE SHOULD HEAD UP OVER-THE-COUNTER BIRTH CONTROL EVERYWHERE.

WE SHOULD NOT WAIT FOR THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT TO HAVE A BIRTH CONTROL WITHOUT CO-PAYS.

WE SHOULD BE MAKING ALL OF THESE SERVICES AS EASILY AVAILABLE AS POSSIBLE IN THE SPIRIT OF PREVENTION.

IF OUR OPPOSITION WAS TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT SO-CALLED LATE-TERM ABORTION, THEY WOULD BE FULLY SUPPORTIVE OF THINGS LIKE MEDICATION ABORTION IN PLAN B, BUT THEY ARE NOT, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

THIS IS ABOUT RESTRICTING ACCESS TO CARE FOR AMERICANS OF REPRODUCTIVE AGE AND MAKING THOSE DECISIONS FOR US AND RESTRICTING OUR ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

I THINK FOLKS ON OUR SIDE OVER A LONG TIME THEY JUST NEED A HEALTHY REMINDER AND WE ARE ABOUT TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

>> Bonnie Erbe: THE JACKSON CASE, TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

THE RULING WILL NOT COME UNTIL THE SPRING OR EARLY SUMMER.

SO WHAT IMPACT IN EITHER DIRECTION YOU THINK IT WILL HAVE?

>> Mini Timmaraju: MISSISSIPPI HAS UNREMITTING ABORTION CLINIC LEFT IN ALL OF MISSISSIPPI.

THE SUPREME COURT, KENTUCKY BY DECEMBER 1, THE SUPREME COURT IS HEARING THE CASE HINGING ON WHAT THE JACKSON CASE, IS A 15 WEEK ABORTION BAN IDENTIFIED IN THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI.

SO IF THE COURT LET'S MISSISSIPPI, LETS THE MISSISSIPPI BAN STAND, THEY WILL EFFECTIVELY HAVE OVERTURNED ROE AND WE KNOW IN 26 STATES THEY WILL LIKELY BAN ABORTION IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DECISION IS MADE.

>> Bonnie Erbe: BAN IT COMPLETELY OR BENNETT AFTER 15 WEEKS?

>> Mini Timmaraju: GREAT QUESTION.

WE KNOW THERE IS LEGISLATION TO TRY TO BAN IT COMPLETELY.

12 STATES WITH TRIGGER BAN LEGISLATION AND WE ARE TRACKING AN ADDITIONAL NUMBER OF STATES THAT HAVE LEGISLATION READY TO FILE THE MINUTE HAPPENS.

BUT LET'S BE CLEAR: EVEN IF THEY LET ABORTION STAND UP TO 15 WEEKS, THEY HAVE EFFECTIVELY BLOCKED ACCESS FOR MOST AMERICANS TO ABORTION.

SO WE CANNOT LET THAT STAND.

EITHER WAY, WE HAVE TO RAISE THE ALARM.

THERE REALLY IS NO POSITIVE OUTCOME WITH THE COURT GRANTING THIS CASE, THE HEARING.

SO WE -- FRANKLY, ROE SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE FLOOR AND NOT THE CEILING.

RIGHT?

YOU STARTED THE CONVERSATION BY TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH EROSION THERE HAS BEEN OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS SINCE 1973, AND THAT IS BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH ROE STANCE CURRENTLY, MANY, MANY STATES HAVE GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND TO RESTRICT ACCESS.

SO THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR COUNTRY FIGHTING BACK, TO EXPAND ACCESS TO ABORTION CARE, EXPAND ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND MEDICATION ABORTION AND NOT LET ANY MORE ROLLBACKS HAPPEN.

>> Bonnie Erbe: IF YOU HAD TO MAKE A PREDICTION AND LOOK INTO YOUR CRYSTAL BALL, HOW DO YOU SEE THE COURT DECIDING JACKSON?

>> Mini Timmaraju: I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF I WERE TO GUESS, AND I HATE TO GUESS ON SOMETHING AS CRITICAL AS THE COURT, I -- WE KNOW THE MAJORITY, WE KNOW THEY MAKE UP THE COURT.

WE KNOW THE MAKEUP OF THE COURT AND THEIR HISTORY ON THESE ISSUES.

I THINK WE NEED TO GO IN READY AND PREPARED TO SEE THEM UPHOLD THE MISSISSIPPI BAN.

MAYBE WITH SOME CAVEATS, WHICH THE RIGHT WILL SPIN AS, SEE HYSTERICAL FAMILIES, YOU HAVE NOT LOST YOUR COMPLETE RIGHTS TO ABORTION, THEN WE HAVE TO DO OUR JOB WITH OUR COLLEAGUES IN MEDIA TO UNDERSTAND OUR FOLKS UNDERSTAND WE HAVE ADDED SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO ACCESS ALREADY AND THIS JUST EMBOLDENS STATES TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION THAT'S VERY DAMAGING AND WILL REALLY, REALLY HURT PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> Bonnie Erbe: ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

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