“This is not your father’s creationism,” says skeptic and atheist Michael Shermer in a new podcast with Stephen Meyer about Return of the God Hypothesis. “This is far more serious.” And Shermer shows it by going two hours with Meyer, placing every objection before him that he can think of. The case in Meyer’s book is not creationism at all, of course, but I’ll accept the compliment on Steve’s behalf. Shermer has my admiration in return. This is not your father’s village atheism, either. That a conversation like this is possible represents a hopeful sign for our culture. It’s not a debate — it’s a discussion between respectful, eminently thoughtful people, neither of whom is trying to “win.” We could all trying practicing that more with people who disagree with us.